What is Systemic Racism?

[johnnylightnin]

A black woman born today has opportunities he/she would not have had 200 years go. This is an undeniable fact. However, the argument presented is that the equality of opportunity of the contemporary is hindered due to that prior injustice. Is her opportunity limited by the long-ago banned institution of slavery and or Jim Crow? I think I would successfully argue that it is not. Opportunity is not afforded to us by our history, but by our present and future in the form of the legal framework.

I have made no such equation. I am speaking in the context of legal framework. Opportunity is equal or not. I am asserting that all have equal opportunity under the law.

The bolded section is where I got the term "improved opportunity". With that statement, I agree. You then used the phrase equality of opportunity. The first bolded portion is not the same as the second bolded portion.

I would love to read your argument that equality of opportunity is not hindered by prior injustice. I work in wealth creation and preservation and I can tell you that a 350 year pause on wealth creation has exponential effects. Einstein said it best, "compounding interest is the most powerful force in the universe". Lack of wealth leads to lack of influence. Lack of influence leads to lack of education. Lack of education leads to lack of opportunity (or diminished opportunity).

Sure, under the law, the opportunity may technically be equal (like Plessy vs. Furgeson), but the issue is whether or not the opportunity is ACTUALLY equal. Reparations won't fix it. Affirmative action won't fix it. The great society didn't fix it. The sexual revolution didn't fix it. I'm not advocating for legislative action necessarily. I'm advocating for acknowledging the impact of the past and living in that reality as those who have better access and opportunity.

A thriving black community is good for America.

[johnnylightnin]

I assume you are sticking to your guns on slavery from hundreds of years ago causing the problems poor black folks experience?

I don't embrace Trump on this particular issue. Unlike others here with a feel good solution, I've lived it and know what I've seen and experienced.

Yes. I think slavery had a profound impact that is still being felt today. The great society was a response to that impact and I agree with you that it was not good. Clearly, the problem is multifaceted, but the nexus is slavery. It led to the culture you decry and it's financial ramifications are a big part of the collapse of the black family.

[johnnylightnin]

i don't deny any of the history. the history is bad. my point is that it is not helpful to approach the problem in terms of race today.

let me put it this way: my children have many advantages in life, including a stable family life, parents that care about their education, parents with excess income, living in an elite school district, etc. yet there are people of color who have even more advantages than my children. if there are systemic issues that create disadvantages for those people because of their race, then we have a race issue that we need to address. if not, then we have other issues that need solving and bringing race into it only muddies the waters.

on the other end of the spectrum, we have white people that suffer most, if not all, of the disadvantages that exist today that are supposedly the result of systemic racism. do we want to elevate people of color but leave everyone else to fend for themselves?

if you have bought in to the "head start in a race" analogy, then you have fallen in the "us vs. them" trap. the white people's team had a head start on the black people's team. why do we have to be on teams according to race? and why are we racing to start with? is "getting ahead" the ultimate goal of life? painting these pictures only causes us to continue to think of each other as either "like me" or "not like me" based on color of skin. as long as that continues, real racism will continue.

so again, if there are situations where people are put at a disadvantage because of their race today, let's talk about those specific examples and address them. let's also work on correcting the wrongs suffered by americans because of conditions like poverty, family life, politics, etc. without trying to divide people on racial lines.

Whether or not it is helpful to approach the problems in terms of race is a matter of opinion. I don't think it's divisive because I think we're already divided (pick any category: economics, education, religion, politics, etc.).

As far as the analogy goes, it's just that, an analogy. All analogies break-down and some point. Don't think of it as a race, think of it as a journey to stability if you prefer. Slavery, Jim Crow, etc were, perhaps, insurmountable obstacles to the stability of the black race in the US.

[PawDawg]

Yes. I think

Opinion.

My beliefs are based on the truth.

[johnnylightnin]

My beliefs are based on the truth.

Also an opinion.

[PawDawg]

Also an opinion.

No fact. It's a fact that things have gotten worse in the 50 year period since 1965 and they continue to get worse. It's a fact that government does not truly want to fix the problem. It's a fact that socialist democrats must have that voting block to win.

It's your opinion that what was happening when Christopher Columbus arrived is why we have problems today.

[Guisslapp]

No fact. It's a fact that things have gotten worse in the 50 year period since 1965 and they continue to get worse. It's a fact that government does not truly want to fix the problem. It's a fact that socialist democrats must have that voting block to win.

It's your opinion that what was happening when Christopher Columbus arrived is why we have problems today.

You keep saying “things”. What things?

What was getting better before 1965 that got worse after?

[PawDawg]

You keep saying “things”. What things?

What was getting better before 1965 that got worse after?

The illegitimate birth rate, which is the basic cause of the problems we fact today among poor blacks and poor whites. It had been steady going into the 1965.

You won't agree, but fatherless children and single parent homes are the biggest problem we face today. Poverty is a result of that.

[johnnylightnin]

No fact. It's a fact that things have gotten worse in the 50 year period since 1965 and they continue to get worse. It's a fact that government does not truly want to fix the problem. It's a fact that socialist democrats must have that voting block to win.

It's your opinion that what was happening when Christopher Columbus arrived is why we have problems today.

The illegitimate birth rate, which is the basic cause of the problems we fact today among poor blacks and poor whites. It had been steady going into the 1965.

You won't agree, but fatherless children and single parent homes are the biggest problem we face today. Poverty is a result of that.

No, those are opinions. You've interpreted what you observe and you've labeled it as a fact. It is not a fact. Correlation is not causation. Not to mention the possibility of confirmation bias in your interpretation of your events.

[PawDawg]

No, those are opinions. You've interpreted what you observe and you've labeled it as a fact. It is not a fact. Correlation is not causation. Not to mention the possibility of confirmation bias in your interpretation of your events.

Call it what you want. You know what the root cause is. You and others are way over analyzing.

We always hear that we need to have open dialogue, but even when responsible blacks bring up the obvious they are shouted down by the socialist democrats and advocates of larger government.

[Guisslapp]

The illegitimate birth rate, which is the basic cause of the problems we fact today among poor blacks and poor whites. It had been steady going into the 1965.

You won't agree, but fatherless children and single parent homes are the biggest problem we face today. Poverty is a result of that.

If you are saying that illegitimate birth rate was decreasing or staying flat prior to 1965, that is not a fact - it is a lie. Look at the top chart at the link below.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afri...mily_structure

And how do you know that I would disagree about fatherless children and single parent families being the biggest problem? Because I do think those are major problems.

I don’t think those are caused because people think they will profit from having children and thereby increase their benefits. If so, that would be crazy because kids are a net financial drain even with the extra benefits.

[Guisslapp]

So what do you think is causing the fatherless homes?

[PawDawg]

If you are saying that illegitimate birth rate was decreasing or staying flat prior to 1965, that is not a fact - it is a lie. Look at the top chart at the link below.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afri...mily_structure

And how do you know that I would disagree about fatherless children and single parent families being the biggest problem? Because I do think those are major problems.

I don’t think those are caused because people think they will profit from having children and thereby increase their benefits. If so, that would be crazy because kids are a net financial drain even with the extra benefits.

Not a lie. It was basically flat lining along with other races and you can't deny what has happened since 1965. You know that LBJ's Great Society was the main contributor.

Having more children is another result of the broken system. So is the high abortion rate. The culture (not racial) encourages more children and to begin having them at a younger age. Apparently many have not figured out they don't benefit from having more children.

[Guisslapp]

Not a lie. It was basically flat lining along with other races and you can't deny what has happened since 1965. You know that LBJ's Great Society was the main contributor.

Having more children is another result of the broken system. So is the high abortion rate. The culture (not racial) encourages more children and to begin having them at a younger age. Apparently many have not figured out they don't benefit from having more children.

What does “basically flat lining” mean? It went from 20% to 25% in the 10 years prior to 1965 - a growth rate of 25% during that time. In what world is that “basically flat”?

On the other hand, in 1960, the first oral contraceptive became FDA approved.

Also, there is the matter of abortion and the disproportionate impact it had on poor people before Roe v Wade (1973).

https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2003/...st-be-prologue

So how can you be so convinced that this was New Deal driven rather than technology driven?

[Guisslapp]

Not a lie. It was basically flat lining along with other races and you can't deny what has happened since 1965. You know that LBJ's Great Society was the main contributor.

Having more children is another result of the broken system. So is the high abortion rate. The culture (not racial) encourages more children and to begin having them at a younger age. Apparently many have not figured out they don't benefit from having more children.

How does the culture encourage people to have more children and sooner? By what specific source of influence?