2nd Amendment

[PawDawg]

When you consider the people you have known personally (not including stories of unknown “neighbors”), which number is greater:

A. Gun suicides + domestic shootings + gun accidents, or

B. Used gun in self defense?

Just wondering if people’s individual experience are out of line with the stats.

I mentioned this in an earlier post but we have no way of knowing how many people use guns as self-defense. We only know most of those which involved a gun being fired. However we know 100% those involving accidents. In my opinion suicide should not be included in the statistics.

[Dawgonit]

I don't know if you will see drastic change from Washington. Primarily because we already have many gun restrictions and laws on the books. You can close some loopholes, but the problem is that the process/restrictions/ etc. Failed in the Florida case. With Sandy Hook, a guy took a legally owned gun from a locked safe, shot his mother and then proceeded to go to the Elementary school. No gun law in the world would have prevented this, other than gun confiscation which is not going to happen. The current process broke down in Florida. FBI was notified, Sheriff's department was aware, many people "saw something and said something" nothing was done. Going after guns is not a logical solution. Also the person who's job it was to react to such an event in Florida did not do his job.

Does Trump make ideas not based upon facts and reason? Probably, just like every other President before him, and if you don't believe this you are being intellectually dishonest. Trump also has a huge ego, and is unfiltered. He has said things that are probably not the most "presidential", yet you know where he stands on something. One of the reasons for Trumps popularity is that he doesn't back down to the media who try to force a particular narrative. Every other republican that I have known since I've been alive has rolled over and been a doormat for the media and allowed them to get away with any accusations, etc. Trump if nothing else, has shown the bias in the media and people are aware of it.

First, thank you for your response, and I mean that sincerely even though the post was directed toward TT.

And I agree totally with the bolded statement. Humans are emotional people and presidents have teams to run things and to help prevent ideas based on emotion from happening. My question was directed to TylerTechsas to see if he can admit that Trump is fallible and recognize his tribalism. I recognize what Trump does and agree with some and disagree with a lot. I wish he would watch himself more with how he represents the USA but how "presidential" he is, that definitely a topic for another thread.

Bottom line, is there is evil in this world. Taking away guns is not going to stop mass killings, it would just stop mass killings with guns.

You're right, evil exists in the world and taking away guns would stop mass killings by guns. That's the point. It's easier to kill multiple people with easier access to guns. Economically and culturally similar countries have had terrorists, criminals, mentally ill people commit mass killings. Evil exists. However those countries have fewer deaths overall, especially by guns. What is the difference between America and these culturally and economically similar cultures? I would chalk that up to their gun restrictions and gun reform. We didn't go through them like other countries did. They have worked in the other countries. Restricting and regulating guns would severely limit the amount of people killed. The question shouldn't be whether gun reforms and restrictions work or not. They do.

The question is how feasible, and to what extent, is doing gun reform and regulation in the United States. This is what people should focus on- the different ways to reform gun control in the US, because obviously this has been happening for decades and something needs to change. We can't just keep doing nothing and expect different results.

[Guisslapp]

I mentioned this in an earlier post but we have no way of knowing how many people use guns as self-defense. We only know most of those which involved a gun being fired. However we know 100% those involving accidents. In my opinion suicide should not be included in the statistics.

In your own experience, what is greater A or B?

[PawDawg]

In your own experience, what is greater A or B?

I have to spend a great deal of time recollecting. Obviously the tragedies had the most impact from a memory standpoint. But when I try to think of all the stories involving guns that did not end well for the criminal I'd say it's likely more. Several of those stories were simply displaying the weapon and not even pointing it.

[Guisslapp]

I have to spend a great deal of time recollecting. Obviously the tragedies had the most impact from a memory standpoint. But when I try to think of all the stories involving guns that did not end well for the criminal I'd say it's likely more. Several of those stories were simply displaying the weapon and not even pointing it.

This article touches on the use of a gun in self defense with no shots fired. Obviously a hard statistic to track if it goes unreported.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...outputType=amp

[JuBru]

You're right, evil exists in the world and taking away guns would stop mass killings by guns. That's the point. It's easier to kill multiple people with easier access to guns.Economically and culturally similar countries have had terrorists, criminals, mentally ill people commit mass killings. Evil exists. However those countries have fewer deaths overall, especially by guns. What is the difference between America and these culturally and economically similar cultures? I would chalk that up to their gun restrictions and gun reform. We didn't go through them like other countries did. They have worked in the other countries. Restricting and regulating guns would severely limit the amount of people killed. The question shouldn't be whether gun reforms and restrictions work or not. They do.

The question is how feasible, and to what extent, is doing gun reform and regulation in the United States. This is what people should focus on- the different ways to reform gun control in the US, because obviously this has been happening for decades and something needs to change. We can't just keep doing nothing and expect different results.

You answered your question within the question. Gun bans only happen and work in that type of society. You will never see that society in the United States again.

So the question is how to do make guns work in our society. They work fine, especially when properly maintained. The people are broken.

[Dawgonit]

You answered your question within the question. Gun bans only happen and work in that type of society.

Maybe I should have typed it better. "What is the difference between America and these culturally and economically similar cultures?"

Meaning what separates the USA from the UK, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, France, Germany etc. These places are culturally and economically similar to the USA but they don't have the problems we are having here. I wasn't trying to say these places are culturally and economically homogeneous internally if that's what you inferred from that.

So the question is how to do make guns work in our society. They work fine, especially when properly maintained.

I agree guns can work in society just like they work in the other countries. Guns aren't completely banned in the previously mentioned countries. What is the difference? They have more rules and regulations for them.

The people are broken.

This is also a problem, though we might disagree what it means. Every tragedy we talk about mental health and society, but what initiative do we take to stop it? Mental health services are failing in the country and we need to expand them. This is another way, among others that need to be changed in order to fix the problem. It needs a multi-faceted approach.

[FriscoDog]

First, thank you for your response, and I mean that sincerely even though the post was directed toward TT.

And I agree totally with the bolded statement. Humans are emotional people and presidents have teams to run things and to help prevent ideas based on emotion from happening. My question was directed to TylerTechsas to see if he can admit that Trump is fallible and recognize his tribalism. I recognize what Trump does and agree with some and disagree with a lot. I wish he would watch himself more with how he represents the USA but how "presidential" he is, that definitely a topic for another thread.




You're right, evil exists in the world and taking away guns would stop mass killings by guns. That's the point. It's easier to kill multiple people with easier access to guns. Economically and culturally similar countries have had terrorists, criminals, mentally ill people commit mass killings. Evil exists. However those countries have fewer deaths overall, especially by guns. What is the difference between America and these culturally and economically similar cultures? I would chalk that up to their gun restrictions and gun reform. We didn't go through them like other countries did. They have worked in the other countries. Restricting and regulating guns would severely limit the amount of people killed. The question shouldn't be whether gun reforms and restrictions work or not. They do.

The question is how feasible, and to what extent, is doing gun reform and regulation in the United States. This is what people should focus on- the different ways to reform gun control in the US, because obviously this has been happening for decades and something needs to change. We can't just keep doing nothing and expect different results.

Problem is that guns have been a part of our country's fabric since its founding. Making all guns illegal will not remove guns from the society. That's foolish. Drugs are ready available and they are illegal to possess. Why would guns be any different if they were illegal? Sweden has similar gun laws as the U.S. easy to obtain, even fully auto "assault rifles". They have never had a school shooting. Why do you think that is? Banning guns is not logical, many people use them for hunting to live, for protection against wild animals etc. Someone evil who is bent on killing others can rent a Uhaul truck in 30 min and use that vehicle to run over and kill 17-25 or many more people in a matter of 2-3 minutes. That has already been proven in France, New York and other places. We won't be banning trucks.

[Guisslapp]

Problem is that guns have been a part of our country's fabric since its founding. Making all guns illegal will not remove guns from the society. That's foolish. Drugs are ready available and they are illegal to possess. Why would guns be any different if they were illegal? Sweden has similar gun laws as the U.S. easy to obtain, even fully auto "assault rifles". They have never had a school shooting. Why do you think that is? Banning guns is not logical, many people use them for hunting to live, for protection against wild animals etc. Someone evil who is bent on killing others can rent a Uhaul truck in 30 min and use that vehicle to run over and kill 17-25 or many more people in a matter of 2-3 minutes. That has already been proven in France, New York and other places. We won't be banning trucks.

On Sweden gun laws...

https://www.vox.com/2016/8/8/1235182...weden-solution

[Dawgonit]

Problem is that guns have been a part of our country's fabric since its founding.

Yeah and we used to have the runner-up in a presidential election become the vice-president but we managed to see the mistake, change it, and improve the country. Just because that's how it was doesn't mean we have to stay that way.

Making all guns illegal will not remove guns from the society.

I'm not trying to get rid of all guns. You're attacking a straw man. People want more regulations not an outright ban.

Drugs are ready available and they are illegal to possess.

But I'm not arguing all guns should be illegal like drugs. Anyway if drugs were legal, don't you think they would be regulated?

Sweden has similar gun laws as the U.S. easy to obtain, even fully auto "assault rifles". They have never had a school shooting. Why do you think that is?

Their gun laws and regulations are different and much stronger. Something I would like to see here.

Banning guns is not logical, many people use them for hunting to live, for protection against wild animals etc.

Agreed. Again, I didn't say ban all guns. Straw man.

Someone evil who is bent on killing others can rent a Uhaul truck in 30 min and use that vehicle to run over and kill 17-25 or many more people in a matter of 2-3 minutes. That has already been proven in France, New York and other places. We won't be banning trucks.

Trucks are regulated. You need to pass a test to use one. There are many rules you must follow while using it. You need to get it regularly inspected to make sure its in working order. You need to have it registered to the government. There are specific places you can legally place it and legally places you can't. If you break these rules you can lose your right to use the truck.

These are regulations- Things people want for guns.

[FriscoDog]

Yeah and we used to have the runner-up in a presidential election become the vice-president but we managed to see the mistake, change it, and improve the country. Just because that's how it was doesn't mean we have to stay that way.




I'm not trying to get rid of all guns. You're attacking a straw man. People want more regulations not an outright ban.



But I'm not arguing all guns should be illegal like drugs. Anyway if drugs were legal, don't you think they would be regulated?



Their gun laws and regulations are different and much stronger. Something I would like to see here.




Agreed. Again, I didn't say ban all guns. Straw man.


Trucks are regulated. You need to pass a test to use one. There are many rules you must follow while using it. You need to get it regularly inspected to make sure its in working order. You need to have it registered to the government. There are specific places you can legally place it and legally places you can't. If you break these rules you can lose your right to use the truck.

These are regulations- Things people want for guns.

There is no test other than a drivers license to rent a large Uhaul truck. You can be driving that away in 30 minutes time. You can use that truck to run into a crowd of people 10 minutes later. We will not ban Uhaul trucks. It is about the person using them. Why is a different approach being taken with guns?

I enjoy shooting. Shooting is a sport. It is a skill to consistently hit a target at 400 yards or more. I also like shooting sporting clays, trap and skeet. Why do so many progressives look upon this sport as evil? They liken it to KKK or Nazis or mass murderers when it is nothing of the sort.

[techman05]

I would not be opposed to licenses being granted to purchase or carry any firearm. Licensure should require hunter safety and gun safety. Set the age at 18, or 21, but make it across the board. Whatever age is considered “adult” should be allowed to vote, purchase firearms, fight for country, use tobacco, and drink alcohol. Require renewal of your gun license as often as driver’s license renewal.

[Guisslapp]

There is no test other than a drivers license to rent a large Uhaul truck. You can be driving that away in 30 minutes time. You can use that truck to run into a crowd of people 10 minutes later. We will not ban Uhaul trucks. It is about the person using them. Why is a different approach being taken with guns?

I enjoy shooting. Shooting is a sport. It is a skill to consistently hit a target at 400 yards or more. I also like shooting sporting clays, trap and skeet. Why do so many progressives look upon this sport as evil? They liken it to KKK or Nazis or mass murderers when it is nothing of the sort.

Sweden’s regulations are much tighter and your “carry” rights are far more limited.

[Guisslapp]

Speaking of arming teachers, a teacher in Georgia discharged his firearm today in class. Fortunately, no one appears to be hurt.

[FriscoDog]

I would not be opposed to licenses being granted to purchase or carry any firearm. Licensure should require hunter safety and gun safety. Set the age at 18, or 21, but make it across the board. Whatever age is considered “adult” should be allowed to vote, purchase firearms, fight for country, use tobacco, and drink alcohol. Require renewal of your gun license as often as driver’s license renewal.

I agree with this completely and I also think most law abiding gun owners have no issues with renewal of gun licenses. I have had a few gun safety courses, they were good. Again, I don't think you would have much push back from law abiding gun owners to go through a safety course.