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  1. #31
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    America is a free-market capitalist society....just about everywhere but college athletics. Its not about commitment. Its about opportunity. If someone has the opportunity to improve their job...they quit Wells Fargo and go to Goldman Sachs. They trade their Toyota for a Lexus. They leave their Butterface for a model. Not everyone...but do we begrudge those that choose to upgrade?

    Very little to do with commitment. And speaking of commitment, its not a 1-way street. Schools drop kids for many reasons. Schools dont follow through on recruiting promises for many reasons. Yet we dont question their commitment.

    Market value means something. Not every kid has market value. But the kid at Kansas who had to forego his freshman year because someone valued him enough to give him a car...has market value. These coaches get multi-million dollar contracts and endorsement deals because of these kids' market value.

    The argument that they should just be happy with the scholarship or deferred POTENTIAL pay is ludicrous. You COULD do your job for 25,000....but your market value is 50,000...do you reject the 50 and take 25 because its "good enough"?

    Theres a reason this is a multi-billion dollar industry...and why these multi-millionaire coaches are paying street handlers and agents to get players...BECAUSE THEY HAVE VALUE.

  2. #32
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    How much worse does the transfer rate get if they do away with sitting out a year? If G5 schools are just the minor league for P5s we will lose freshman all the time who show any promise.
    Not necessarily. Just as many P5s xfer to G5s. And so what if it does? How many people marry the 1st girl they ever dated? Relationships are complicated. This is no different.

    And you wont lose Freshman with promise every time. Maybe not if they feel valued. G5s cant offer all of the same perks as a P5...but every school has something that makes it special. Every coach has something that makes them special. And if not...why begrudge the kid? Why not work on fixing the reasons why people dont want to stay?

    Free market. Its a wonderful thing. How many people beg for more regulations from the govt? Because they dont want to be trapped into an invisible box where someone else holds the key to success/freedom. Again...this is no different.

  3. #33
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Off the top of my head...Middle Tenn, WKU, Nevada, Louisiana Lafayette, all had great seasons on the strength of P5 to G5 xfers.

  4. #34
    Administrator & 2006 Men's Progressive Bracket Champion Dwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond repute Dwayne From Minden's Avatar
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg-n-Pony View Post
    America is a free-market capitalist society....just about everywhere but college athletics. Its not about commitment. Its about opportunity. If someone has the opportunity to improve their job...they quit Wells Fargo and go to Goldman Sachs. They trade their Toyota for a Lexus. They leave their Butterface for a model. Not everyone...but do we begrudge those that choose to upgrade?

    Very little to do with commitment. And speaking of commitment, its not a 1-way street. Schools drop kids for many reasons. Schools dont follow through on recruiting promises for many reasons. Yet we dont question their commitment.

    Market value means something. Not every kid has market value. But the kid at Kansas who had to forego his freshman year because someone valued him enough to give him a car...has market value. These coaches get multi-million dollar contracts and endorsement deals because of these kids' market value.

    The argument that they should just be happy with the scholarship or deferred POTENTIAL pay is ludicrous. You COULD do your job for 25,000....but your market value is 50,000...do you reject the 50 and take 25 because its "good enough"?

    Theres a reason this is a multi-billion dollar industry...and why these multi-millionaire coaches are paying street handlers and agents to get players...BECAUSE THEY HAVE VALUE.
    Is it ludicrous?

    Where else can they go for a two or three year apprenticeship and have a chance to cash in like they do?

    Do they want to toil in a minor league system riding a bus, no tv/media - no exposure - no increase in value like a kid straight out of high school does for a relatively small signing bonus and a small monthly stipend for years before the big break?

    Or Europe/Overseas playing for club teams on foreign soil, no family no support system

    Once again - I say the NAME on the jersey is what gives the talent the opportunity and platform to transform that apprenticeship into the payday

    I still say basketball should be just like baseball - where you have 3 options - you go pro out of high school and be paid, go to juco and be draft eligible at any time or transfer to D1 if you are academically qualified after your first year, or you are eligible for the pro draft after your junior class year

    That puts the onus on the kids and coaches and their "handlers" to make the best decision in the interest of the KID not necessarily the school

    As far as my profession or any job- ONE should weigh the best fit personally and it's not only $$$ that make the decision - Is $XXX,XXXX better than $YYY,YYY given conditions XXX and the potential for ZZZ

    Transfer rules need tweaking - but I'm only of the thought where NCAA infractions are involved or academic scandal where the current player was part of the problem
    ''Don't be a bad dagh..."

  5. #35
    Administrator & 2006 Men's Progressive Bracket Champion Dwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond repute Dwayne From Minden's Avatar
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Professional pay day
    ''Don't be a bad dagh..."

  6. #36
    2003 BB&B Basketball Pick 'Em Champion inudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond repute inudesu's Avatar
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne From Minden View Post

    I would argue it is part of the moral collapse of the society in general also




    It is about committment
    There is no way to know, but I'd argue it's at least plausible that it's more about opportunity. In the past, there might have been just as much transferring had the opportunity been there. I don't want anyone (that we want) transferring from Tech, but I'm all for great players transferring to Tech.

    But I don't see this as some societal collapse. College students transfer for better opportunities. Sometimes that leaves open Teaching Assistantships, or scholarships that could have gone elsewhere.

    It's symbiotic. Student-athletes benefit, but so do the schools. I don't know where the line is to make that exchange even, but my feeling is that (even with all the hand-wringing about transfer rates) the exchange is still pretty heavily weighted towards the schools. I've got no problem to opening that up somewhat towards the students.

    And they ought to own their own likenesses. The schools already get to negotiate with EA sports for their cut of the video game money, students ought to be able to do the same.

  7. #37
    Administrator & 2006 Men's Progressive Bracket Champion Dwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond reputeDwayne From Minden has a reputation beyond repute Dwayne From Minden's Avatar
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by inudesu View Post
    There is no way to know, but I'd argue it's at least plausible that it's more about opportunity. In the past, there might have been just as much transferring had the opportunity been there. I don't want anyone (that we want) transferring from Tech, but I'm all for great players transferring to Tech.

    But I don't see this as some societal collapse. College students transfer for better opportunities. Sometimes that leaves open Teaching Assistantships, or scholarships that could have gone elsewhere.

    It's symbiotic. Student-athletes benefit, but so do the schools. I don't know where the line is to make that exchange even, but my feeling is that (even with all the hand-wringing about transfer rates) the exchange is still pretty heavily weighted towards the schools. I've got no problem to opening that up somewhat towards the students.

    And they ought to own their own likenesses. The schools already get to negotiate with EA sports for their cut of the video game money, students ought to be able to do the same
    .
    Will never happen as long as there is Title IX - because no one is making a college wbb game

    I do agree with the EA sports angle though - that is about the LONE area where I think they should have a deferred benefit when they leave school for a % of royalties
    ''Don't be a bad dagh..."

  8. #38
    2003 BB&B Basketball Pick 'Em Champion inudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond reputeinudesu has a reputation beyond repute inudesu's Avatar
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne From Minden View Post
    Will never happen as long as there is Title IX - because no one is making a college wbb game

    I do agree with the EA sports angle though - that is about the LONE area where I think they should have a deferred benefit when they leave school for a % of royalties
    I want to say there was an early (like while I was in school - so late 90s) NCAA basketball game that had a limited pool of women's teams. I don't think we were on there (there were only like 8) but we should have been.

    But yeah, it's not likely to be the same.

    I'd still say all students ought to be able to make whatever they can make off of their name. Jerseys, video games, autographs, youtube videos, endorsements, whatever.

  9. #39
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by inudesu View Post
    I want to say there was an early (like while I was in school - so late 90s) NCAA basketball game that had a limited pool of women's teams. I don't think we were on there (there were only like 8) but we should have been.

    But yeah, it's not likely to be the same.

    I'd still say all students ought to be able to make whatever they can make off of their name. Jerseys, video games, autographs, youtube videos, endorsements, whatever.
    Man, you just brought me back to playing NCAA Basketball 07. I am pretty sure the techsters were on that one.

  10. #40
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne From Minden View Post
    I still say basketball should be just like baseball - where you have 3 options - you go pro out of high school and be paid, go to juco and be draft eligible at any time or transfer to D1 if you are academically qualified after your first year, or you are eligible for the pro draft after your junior class year

    That puts the onus on the kids and coaches and their "handlers" to make the best decision in the interest of the KID not necessarily the school
    Thats interesting. Is that a MLB rule or NCAA rule?

    And you are correct...the name on the jersey adds value...but its the talent that makes the name on the jersey valuable. How much more valuable were the UNLV jerseys when Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon were wearing them. I challenge you to name 2 players on that team now.

    If one day, all the elite players decided to forsake the blue bloods for "regular schools", how quickly would the Cameron Crazies stop camping outside for tix?

    To your point, it SHOULD be a symbiotic relationship...but right now its a parasitic relationship with the universities/NCAA feasting on the kids.

    I am not advocating for colleges to pay students. (even though they could and probably should). I am only saying that kids should have SOME leverage in the relationship. How else could you have a healthy relationship? Kids SHOULD be able to earn whatever they can. There was a kid in FL who had to shut down his profitable YouTube channel because or be ruled ineligible. That is ludicrous. Autographs, appearances, boosters, etc...all should be fair play. How quickly could you turn no-name university into a powerhouse if a billionaire alum had a million dollar job for a couple athletes? Remember the movie Blue Chips?

    And the other thing is kids should be allowed to xfer...at least once...penalty free.

  11. #41
    2004 and 2010-2011 BB&B Pick 'Em Contest Champion DogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond reputeDogsWin has a reputation beyond repute DogsWin's Avatar
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    "Fair play", "healthy symbiotic relationship" in the NCAA? Have you been asleep since the 1960's or something? The NCAA is about 1. money 2. exclusive and absolutely restricted rights to that money 3. Advancement of the P5 agenda

    Sharing revenue with student-athletes or anyone else is not part of the equation unless doing so advances the P5's self-serving interests.

  12. #42
    Champ techman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg-n-Pony View Post
    Not necessarily. Just as many P5s xfer to G5s. And so what if it does? How many people marry the 1st girl they ever dated? Relationships are complicated. This is no different.

    And you wont lose Freshman with promise every time. Maybe not if they feel valued. G5s cant offer all of the same perks as a P5...but every school has something that makes it special. Every coach has something that makes them special. And if not...why begrudge the kid? Why not work on fixing the reasons why people dont want to stay?

    Free market. Its a wonderful thing. How many people beg for more regulations from the govt? Because they dont want to be trapped into an invisible box where someone else holds the key to success/freedom. Again...this is no different.

    I get your point and I agree. However, it is funny that I did marry the only girl I ever dated.

  13. #43
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    I get your point and I agree. However, it is funny that I did marry the only girl I ever dated.
    I concede. And congrats!

  14. #44
    Puppy Dawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the roughDawg-n-Pony is a jewel in the rough Dawg-n-Pony's Avatar
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by DogsWin View Post
    "Fair play", "healthy symbiotic relationship" in the NCAA? Have you been asleep since the 1960's or something? The NCAA is about 1. money 2. exclusive and absolutely restricted rights to that money 3. Advancement of the P5 agenda

    Sharing revenue with student-athletes or anyone else is not part of the equation unless doing so advances the P5's self-serving interests.
    Im agreeing with you. Which is exactly why I say I dont blame the kids whatsoever for transferring or accepting gifts, etc. Because how are they the only ones expected to play fair or be honorable in a rigged game? The institution is shady and "self-serving"...but the teenagers are expected to be rational and "committed" to a system designed to make billions while they only receive an apprenticeship that only graduates 2% into its profession.

  15. #45
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    Re: Jy'lan Washington is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    However, it is funny that I did marry the only girl I ever dated.
    Ditto!

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