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Thread: Physically Impossible!

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    Physically Impossible!

    Okay, yes, I am a fan of bike racing. Just finished watching the Tour of Commie La La Land. But!!! I have a pet peeve re: the stupid TV guys. It is NOT possible to "thrust your bike forward." Or, "throw it at the finish line," as the silly announcers say. Can't be done.

    In a close finish, in a sprint, you see the goofy riders seemingly "throwing" their bike toward the line, supposedly stealing a few inches on their rivals. It's an illusion. All that happens is the rider straightens his arm and pushes himself BACKWARDS. The bike doesn't move at all. There is ZERO movement of the bike forward.

    Think about it. To accomplish this would mean the rider would have to lift his bike off the ground to be able to use his arms to "throw" the bike forward. Not possible. Try standing on a piece of cardboard, bend over, grab it, and then "throw" the cardboard forward. Amazingly it doesn't move an inch. You'd have to be able to throw your weight too. Same thing while SITTING ON A BIKE. Now, if the rider got off his bike and stood next to it, then yeah, he could throw his bike forward. But not while on it and moving 40 mph in a sprint to the line.

    Sorry....just another pet peeve. Like "scoring the basketball" and "he made up for his earlier mistake."

  2. #2
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Sounds like you should stop watching.

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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Okay, yes, I am a fan of bike racing. Just finished watching the Tour of Commie La La Land. But!!! I have a pet peeve re: the stupid TV guys. It is NOT possible to "thrust your bike forward." Or, "throw it at the finish line," as the silly announcers say. Can't be done.

    In a close finish, in a sprint, you see the goofy riders seemingly "throwing" their bike toward the line, supposedly stealing a few inches on their rivals. It's an illusion. All that happens is the rider straightens his arm and pushes himself BACKWARDS. The bike doesn't move at all. There is ZERO movement of the bike forward.

    Think about it. To accomplish this would mean the rider would have to lift his bike off the ground to be able to use his arms to "throw" the bike forward. Not possible. Try standing on a piece of cardboard, bend over, grab it, and then "throw" the cardboard forward. Amazingly it doesn't move an inch. You'd have to be able to throw your weight too. Same thing while SITTING ON A BIKE. Now, if the rider got off his bike and stood next to it, then yeah, he could throw his bike forward. But not while on it and moving 40 mph in a sprint to the line.

    Sorry....just another pet peeve. Like "scoring the basketball" and "he made up for his earlier mistake."
    Scoring the basketball always irks me as well. Between that, "breaking the defender's ankles" and "FROM DOWNTOWN" every time a 3 pointer is launched, it makes basketball on TV and endless series of nonsensical clichés.

    Thankfully the NHL playoffs are at the same time as the NBA playoffs, so I normally don't watch.

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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    hate to be pedantic about it (well, maybe i don't) but theoretically, if the rider thrusts himself backwards, the bike will be thrust forward more. the center of mass of the bike will continue to move at whatever rate the rider is able to propel it, but the front of the bike will be further out ahead of that center of mass (especially since the majority of the mass is with the rider rather than the bike).

  5. #5
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    That's physically impossible. It's an illusion.

    And the funny thing, which makes those TV guys look stupider, is they show frame by frame super slow motion as the bikes hit the finish line. Note: there are a lot of very close finishes and the judges often have to determine winner, 2nd place, 3rd place by the camera on the line. And one can readily see there is no thrusting forward, no special movement of the bike. Which is what anyone with common sense would expect.

    AGAIN, the rider would have to physically lift the bike off the ground, that would mean the bike and himself, for his arms to be free to add any forward movement to the unit (him and his bike) independent of the movement already under going.

    You think it's possible to lift a bike off the ground while sitting on it? Do it then. Video it, and post it here.

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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Are they sitting on their bike or standing in a sprint?

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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Are they sitting on their bike or standing in a sprint?
    Both. Usually the rider will stand, well not all the way up that would not be aerodynamic, but they will lift themselves off the seat a little when they want maximum power. However, that is always at the beginning of their final push to the line. By the time they reach the line they are usually always back in the seat. Every once in awhile, a rider will "stand" when within 30 meters of the line for one final, all-out drive.

    The bikes are tailored to each rider, seat heights, peddle locations, handle-bar settings all designed to allow the rider to generate maximum power while seated. But, there is a slight bend at the knee, so lifting themselves out of their seats, slightly, causes the legs to stretch another couple of inches and the rider can generate a little more power.

    But none of that means a rider can lift his bike off the ground. The weight of the rider is still "on the bike" via the peddles, pushing down. Now....if there was a ramp just before the finish line, such that the rider/biker would be airborne, then it would be possible, using both his arms and legs to thrust the bike forward a couple of inches....it would only be a couple of inches because a rider's arms are already almost stretched out fully. Like the knee, there is a slight bend of the elbow in normal rider settings. BUT! in that ramp scenario, it would not be the rider physically lifting the bike up, it would be the momentum at 40mph+ of rider/biker lifting off a ramp.

    I can't get up to that 40mph speed. But I have reached 30mph, maybe 32mph, and it's awesome! Just yesterday some of the neighborhood kids tried to sprint with me, and once again I left them in the dust. They wait for me to come back thru on my laps....I usually ride a 2.5 mile loop, it's safer, keeps me off the highway where "young bucks in pickup trucks" terrorize good people. Anyway, the kids see me coming and they start "sprinting" with a 50 yard head start, but I fly by them easily.

    Just yesterday, during my cool down ride, where I peddle easy on a 1 mile loop, the kids joined me and one asked, "Hey Mister, why do you ride a bike everyday? Don't you have a car?"

  8. #8
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    So is it impossible to jump while running too?

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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Is it impossible to do an Ollie on a bike?

  10. #10
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    That's physically impossible. It's an illusion.

    And the funny thing, which makes those TV guys look stupider, is they show frame by frame super slow motion as the bikes hit the finish line. Note: there are a lot of very close finishes and the judges often have to determine winner, 2nd place, 3rd place by the camera on the line. And one can readily see there is no thrusting forward, no special movement of the bike. Which is what anyone with common sense would expect.

    AGAIN, the rider would have to physically lift the bike off the ground, that would mean the bike and himself, for his arms to be free to add any forward movement to the unit (him and his bike) independent of the movement already under going.

    You think it's possible to lift a bike off the ground while sitting on it? Do it then. Video it, and post it here.
    first off, it's not impossible to lift the bike off the ground (you ride -- surely you've done this yourself?)
    second, why would they have to lift the bike off the ground? it's on wheels, right?
    imagine you're riding a skate board. if you shift your weight backwards and push the board forward, you will fall on your butt, and the board will roll forward at a much faster rate than you were travelling before you made the unfortunate maneuver. this is like that, but you are able to hold on to the skate board so that it doesn't roll out from under you. it briefly moves forward at a faster rate, while you briefly travel at a slower rate. the forward velocity of the center of mass of rider+vehicle continues to move at the same rate it was moving before.

  11. #11
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Other than going over a ramp, or even one of those silly humps, speed bumps in the road, I cannot completely lift a bike off the ground while riding it. I mean both wheels off the ground...and neither can you.

    Besides, the super slow motion, frame by frame of said finishes supports my point. There is NO sudden burst of speed of the bike when a rider does that silly shifting backwards stuff. It's an illusion. During the Tour there is a website that has all kinds of features, including those frame by frame super slow motion finishes. If you watch the leading edge of the tire as it approaches the line and finally crosses the line, it moves at the EXACT same rate of speed consistently. At super slow motion, it would be very easy and obvious to see a sudden burst of speed of the tire. That tire, that bike, would leap forward across about three frames. It doesn't.

  12. #12
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Maybe you should do strength training.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lPfNagf1Yl8

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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Other than going over a ramp, or even one of those silly humps, speed bumps in the road, I cannot completely lift a bike off the ground while riding it. I mean both wheels off the ground...and neither can you.
    Children can do this. Bunny hop is like the first trick you learn on a bike after you learn to ride.

  14. #14
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    I knew it. Just surprised it took so long for one of you morons to post a silly BMX bike trick video as support for your misguided argument.

    PLEASE!!! I beg you, PLEASE convince some pro rider to do a bunny hop as he approaches the finish line in an all-out sprint at 40 mph. He'll look awful silly as 20 riders fly by him in a flash and beat him to the line.

    Actually, I don't think y'all believe that nonsense either. Just trying to yank my chain.

  15. #15
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    Re: Physically Impossible!

    This whole discussion is about as pedantic and boring as watching people ride bicycles.

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