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Thread: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

  1. #61
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    This is the problem with politics in a nutshell.

    If what she says really did happen 30+ years ago, does anyone blame her for not coming forward all those years ago. What she is describing is sexual assault (or attempted sexual assault if viewed 35 years ago). The police and everyone else probably would have dismissed it then. Attitudes were very different about these things in the 80s.

    If she is 100% correct about what happened, that is damaging to his reputation and shows a lack of character when he was 17-18 years old. I don't know if that is enough to ruin his career. He's had 30 years of history since then that seems to refute this being a regular character flaw for him. Maybe it will encourage other women to come forward though.

    There are numerous problems with this though.
    1. It was 30+ years ago. Memories are unreliable even for traumatic events.
    2. She claims they were both drunk and likely most other potential witnesses at the party were too.
    3. They were both pretty young (15 and 17).
    4. She waited 30 years to bring it up. To her credit she did bring it up to a therapist before any of the SC talk started, but even then it had been 30 years or so since the incident.

    At this point it's unlikely that anything can be proven, but it may be enough to ruin his career. If he did it and it was discovered back in high school it probably wouldn't have been enough to damage his career, but since it came out now it might be. If there is some way to prove that it happened then it would change the debate, but as it is I'm uncomfortable with the fact that an unprovable allegation from high school is all it may take.

  2. #62
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Agreed, hope Trump gets a 3rd term too. But, alas, the rules don't allow it. I don't usually support the notion of a 3rd term, even Reagan began to fade at the end of his 2nd term. I guess they run out of ideas. But, Trump...I could get behind him going 12 years. But, one term at a time.
    Reagan faded because of alzheimers.

  3. #63
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    This is the problem with politics in a nutshell.

    If what she says really did happen 30+ years ago, does anyone blame her for not coming forward all those years ago. What she is describing is sexual assault (or attempted sexual assault if viewed 35 years ago). The police and everyone else probably would have dismissed it then. Attitudes were very different about these things in the 80s.

    If she is 100% correct about what happened, that is damaging to his reputation and shows a lack of character when he was 17-18 years old. I don't know if that is enough to ruin his career. He's had 30 years of history since then that seems to refute this being a regular character flaw for him. Maybe it will encourage other women to come forward though.

    There are numerous problems with this though.
    1. It was 30+ years ago. Memories are unreliable even for traumatic events.
    2. She claims they were both drunk and likely most other potential witnesses at the party were too.
    3. They were both pretty young (15 and 17).
    4. She waited 30 years to bring it up. To her credit she did bring it up to a therapist before any of the SC talk started, but even then it had been 30 years or so since the incident.

    At this point it's unlikely that anything can be proven, but it may be enough to ruin his career. If he did it and it was discovered back in high school it probably wouldn't have been enough to damage his career, but since it came out now it might be. If there is some way to prove that it happened then it would change the debate, but as it is I'm uncomfortable with the fact that an unprovable allegation from high school is all it may take.
    If he committed a sexual assault, even in high school, that reflects a flaw in a person’s character too severe to be responsible for the role of the highest court in the land.

    Also, if he did it, he now has lied about it, and that is another problem.

    This isn’t a trial where he might go to jail, this is a co-equal Branch of government serving its advise and consent function to make sure we don’t put bad people in this critical role. It doesn’t have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

  4. #64
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    Why didn’t this conveniently materialize when he was nominated for the appellate court?
    Do you follow who gets nominated for appellate courts? I am an attorney and I don’t even follow that, generally.

  5. #65
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    If he committed a sexual assault, even in high school, that reflects a flaw in a person’s character too severe to be responsible for the role of the highest court in the land.

    Also, if he did it, he now has lied about it, and that is another problem.

    This isn’t a trial where he might go to jail, this is a co-equal Branch of government serving its advise and consent function to make sure we don’t put bad people in this critical role. It doesn’t have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
    I think it is too severe to say the first part. If he attacked her with the intent of rape then yes, that is a flaw worthy of dismissal. If he made unwanted sexual advances and stopped when he was rebuffed, I don't think that is as out of line (particularly for a high school student in the 80s) as you are making it out to be.

    You make a good point about lying about it. I doubt we will ever know, but if he did attack her and has lied about it that would be worthy of dismissal.

    Unfortunately you are right on the last part. It doesn't have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The framework is set for opposing political appointees. Unfortunately there is no standard. That scares me.

  6. #66
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by The Historian View Post
    I am open to her claims. But the problem is that the person she says witnessed the event and stopped it says it never happened, as does the accused. She has a history of both donating to Democrat candidates and participating in Democrat political rallies. Also, the FBI won't open an investigation, because there doesn't appear to be any witness who will back her story.

    As someone who didn't vote for Trump - or Hillary for that matter - I have a fairly open mind about all of this. But in all probability she's a "Never Trumper" who has gone off the deep end. Whatever anyone thinks about Trump, his nominees and his professional staff who are working for the American people day in and day out deserve better.
    “Breaking it up” is also an overly noble way of describing someone that participated in the assault, where is only virtue seems to be drunk diving onto a person that is having their clothes ripped off.

    Her husband says she brought this up as early as 2012.

    Anyway, she seems to be willing to testify, so they have an opportunity to hear her out and test her credibility. Seems like the obvious right thing to do at this point.

  7. #67
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Seems like the obvious right thing to do at this point.
    Especially since this is a Trump nominee. This socialist will go to any length to stop him from getting another one on the court before the blue wave.

    Make no mistake. The socialist democrats have NEVER cared about protecting women.

  8. #68
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Especially since this is a Trump nominee. This socialist will go to any length to stop him from getting another one on the court before the blue wave.

    Make no mistake. The socialist democrats have NEVER cared about protecting women.
    Well, only your favorite Republicans have been nominating sexual assaulters onto the Supreme Court.

  9. #69
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Well, only your favorite Republicans have been nominating sexual assaulters onto the Supreme Court.
    Why do the socialists democrats care about assault of women? Is it only when Trump nominees are accused of something 40 years ago that it matters?

    Like I said, this is all about a stall until they get the blue wave. Otherwise democrats have zero moral compass.

  10. #70
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Why do the socialists democrats care about assault of women? Is it only when Trump nominees are accused of something 40 years ago that it matters?

    Like I said, this is all about a stall until they get the blue wave. Otherwise democrats have zero moral compass.
    I don’t know about the socialist democrats, but the Republicans with morals that you hate so much (and call RINOs) do.

  11. #71
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Well, only your favorite Republicans have been nominating sexual assaulters onto the Supreme Court.
    Sounds like you made your decision. You sure there isn't any bias creeping in there.

  12. #72
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    Sounds like you made your decision. You sure there isn't any bias creeping in there.
    Regarding Clarence Thomas or Kavanaugh?

  13. #73
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Regarding Clarence Thomas or Kavanaugh?
    Kavanaugh.

  14. #74
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    Kavanaugh.
    Undecided, but I don’t dismiss repressed claims of sexual assault just because the alleged perpetrator denies it.

  15. #75
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    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Do you follow who gets nominated for appellate courts? I am an attorney and I don’t even follow that, generally.
    Don’t lower courts have to be confirmed too? I would think something this serious would have sunk him back then. If true.

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