+ Reply to Thread
Page 53 of 68 FirstFirst ... 343515253545563 ... LastLast
Results 781 to 795 of 1017

Thread: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

  1. #781
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,338

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Fetuses aren’t counted as “persons” in other Consitutional contexts, e.g., the census.

    There is no evidence anywhere that framers intended the use of the word person to cover fetuses in how the word is used in the Constitution.
    Arguments from silence are weak.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  2. #782
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Madisonville, LA
    Posts
    5,491

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Fetuses aren’t counted as “persons” in other Consitutional contexts, e.g., the census.

    There is no evidence anywhere that framers intended the use of the word person to cover fetuses in how the word is used in the Constitution.
    There is no evidence anywhere that framers intended to use the word person to exclude babies in how the word is used in the Constitution.

  3. #783
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    There is no evidence anywhere that framers intended to use the word person to exclude babies in how the word is used in the Constitution.
    Babies are persons, “unborn babies” or fetuses aren’t. Why don’t we count them as “persons” for the census?

  4. #784
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Arguments from silence are weak.
    Weak arguments carry the day when there is no argument on the other side.

  5. #785
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,338

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Babies are persons, “unborn babies” or fetuses aren’t. Why don’t we count them as “persons” for the census?
    Why do we count them in murders of pregnant women?

    Why are there any restrictions on abortion?

    Honestly, we can do this all day.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  6. #786
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,338

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Weak arguments carry the day when there is no argument on the other side.
    You just encountered one.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  7. #787
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Why do we count them in murders of pregnant women?

    Why are there any restrictions on abortion?

    Honestly, we can do this all day.
    Because there are state laws that define fetal homicide as a crime or have defined “persons” to encompass fetuses, except not for purposes of abortion.

  8. #788
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    You just encountered one.
    The “nun uh” argument is not really an argument.

  9. #789
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,338

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    The “nun uh” argument is not really an argument.


    "nuh uh" was your argument! detltu gave it right back to you!
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  10. #790
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    As far as why are there any restrictions on abortions - well, that gets back to the central issue that the Roe court wrestled with.

    Legally, (ignoring the competing moral and ethical issues that are wrapped up in the debate) it seems like there is a disconnect with the idea that a human being that would be viable outside of the womb (and thus having rights) but, but for the fact that it is currently in the womb, it doesn’t.

    The Roe court was trying to give some level of rights to fetuses where the Constitution on its face didn’t. Viability became central to the considerations, but the court heard from experts in scientific, religious, and philosophical disciplines. Ultimately, the Roe court arrived at this great compromise based on trimesters because the result of strict interpretation leave most people feeling very dissatisfied. It was a balancing of interests - the rights of women versus the rights of something that could be a person outside of the womb that led to a result that really shouldn’t be disturbed without some Constitutional amendment.

  11. #791
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Madisonville, LA
    Posts
    5,491

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    As far as why are there any restrictions on abortions - well, that gets back to the central issue that the Roe court wrestled with.

    Legally, (ignoring the competing moral and ethical issues that are wrapped up in the debate) it seems like there is a disconnect with the idea that a human being that would be viable outside of the womb (and thus having rights) but, but for the fact that it is currently in the womb, it doesn’t.

    The Roe court was trying to give some level of rights to fetuses where the Constitution on its face didn’t. Viability became central to the considerations, but the court heard from experts in scientific, religious, and philosophical disciplines. Ultimately, the Roe court arrived at this great compromise based on trimesters because the result of strict interpretation leave most people feeling very dissatisfied. It was a balancing of interests - the rights of women versus the rights of something that could be a person outside of the womb that led to a result that really shouldn’t be disturbed without some Constitutional amendment.
    That is an excellent summation. The key points are :
    "be viable outside of the womb (and thus having rights)" which is probably one of the main points of attack (why does it's location determine whether it should have rights, viability is a constantly changing and vague descriptor).
    "Viability became central to the considerations" -Medical advances make this a moving goal post.
    " It was a balancing of interests - the rights of women versus the rights of something that could be a person outside of the womb" Is an abortion a woman exercising her rights to control her body or is she in fact imposing her will on another body. Does your location determine your personhood? Are the rights we enjoy given by the government or are they inalienable?

  12. #792
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    She is doing both, exercising her own rights to her body and on the body of a human that is not a congnizable person.

  13. #793
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    42,101

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    My niece was pregnant with twins and while still in the second trimester, 6th month, she encountered problems that threatened the lives of her babies, and her life too. It was a tough couple of weeks while the doctors ran tests, discussed possibilities...including aborting the pregnancy which would have preserved my niece's, Jessica, life. But Jessica and her husband Josh, as well as the extended family, are devoutly Christian, and while they did work with the doctors, the ultimate decision was to carry on, and if all three died, that was God's will.

    Doing a C-section the twins were "born" very prematurely, like right at 6 months+. They were hardly "viable" without very intensive care in a children's hospital. Anyway, happy to report that all three, these 3 years later, are doing well. The twin girls have some catching up to do in growth, but they are in daycare and are absolutely precious!

    This morning I was watching the Senate proceedings while holding my 6-month-old grandson. About a year ago, or so, my daughter could have legally murdered him. When I see this little man....a future nutso Dawg fan, BTW!...and think how easy it is to murder the ultimate in innocence...whoa!

    And...this one was unplanned. My daughter was not prepared for another one....she has a daughter, now 3, already. But abortion was NEVER a consideration. The father of the baby talked about it, but my daughter would have none of it. No way! No how! no one is murdering my baby, she insisted. I think we raised her right...

  14. #794
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Madisonville, LA
    Posts
    5,491

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    She is doing both, exercising her own rights to her body and on the body of a human that is not a congnizable person.
    We don't have rights over the body of other humans. Cognizable is the center of the debate.

  15. #795
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: Travesty unfolding in Kavanaugh Hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    We don't have rights over the body of other humans. Cognizable is the center of the debate.
    Sure we do.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts