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  1. #31
    Champ arkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond repute arkansasbob's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I don’t think it implicates the free exercise clause, but I think that is what people mostly think of when they think of “religious freedom”. The “establishment clause” prevents the government from showing religious preference. It is more akin to discrimination.

    So if Benton High put this ad on their field and then a satanist church offered the same money for ad space, what is the high school’s choice?
    so it sounds like we're agreed that it does not violate the free exercise clause, since paid advertising is not exercise of religion.

    but it seems like you think it constitutes the government showing religious preference. seems like for that to be the case, you would need to have an actual example of a different religious group being denied advertising based on their religious message.

    may i propose an alternative to litigation: if you think a particular ad shows religious preference, test it by sponsoring an ad that shows your own religious preference. if the school denies it, then you have a case. if the school allows it, then you can see if anyone is upset by it (my guess is that no one would be). if people that favor the first ad don't like the second, then you can explain the first amendment to them and they will either learn to live with the ad they don't like (preferably) or help you in asking the school to remove both.

  2. #32
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    If a public school allows/accepts one religious reference, but then denies others, then I would say there is an issue. The denied folks would have a complaint. But, if one buys an ad, pays their money, and no other religion-based organization ever asks to do the same, then so be it.

    As for the comment "Bud Light is not a religion," well, you haven't been around rednecks...

  3. #33
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Quote Originally Posted by arkansasbob View Post
    so it sounds like we're agreed that it does not violate the free exercise clause, since paid advertising is not exercise of religion.

    but it seems like you think it constitutes the government showing religious preference. seems like for that to be the case, you would need to have an actual example of a different religious group being denied advertising based on their religious message.

    may i propose an alternative to litigation: if you think a particular ad shows religious preference, test it by sponsoring an ad that shows your own religious preference. if the school denies it, then you have a case. if the school allows it, then you can see if anyone is upset by it (my guess is that no one would be). if people that favor the first ad don't like the second, then you can explain the first amendment to them and they will either learn to live with the ad they don't like (preferably) or help you in asking the school to remove both.
    That would be a good way to prove that there was an intent to discriminate, but not really required.

    This ad also included a Bible verse, BTW.

    Do you think it matters in this case that the ad was paid for and designed by a third party? What if the school just took it on its own to paint a cross and bible verse on its field? Can we agree that violates the Constitution? If so, surely you can see the problem with using third party funding as a potential loophole.

  4. #34
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Sounds like there are bigger problems.

    https://www.au.org/sites/default/fil...0Complaint.pdf

  5. #35
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    If the public school posted a religious reference, then yeah, that's a no-no. But, no, I don't "surely" see the problem with it being a third party. Again, this is an "advertisement" issue. A money-making mechanism to benefit the school. The ad, the logo, reached the field via the ad (money-making) program. And should be treated no differently than Joe's Bar-B-Que would be. If anything, the DISCRIMINATION runs the other way!

    Now, as I just posted, if the public school accepted a Christian-referenced ad, but denied another religion's referenced ad, then that would be an issue. Is that what happened in Benton? Apparently not.

  6. #36
    Champ GonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond repute GonzoDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    It's interesting that the comparison of "would this be ok if it was muslim" is being used. No muslim group has come forward and offered to pay for an ad, ever. They are more than welcome to advertise in the school program or buy an ad anywhere they want to. There was no complaint from anyone in the community. The parish school board is being sued over a separate issue by a group called something like the freedom from religion group, I don't know the actual name. That group is being represented by the ACLU. The ChristFit logo was on the field all of last year. Someone within the administration thought that because of the battle they are in with the freedom from religion group that they didn't want to bring any more attention to the issue and recommended the logo that was paid for by Christ Fit be painted over. It was initially painted over. There was a big backlash from the community. ChristFit is a very popular place to work out. The school board met again and decided to put the ad back on the field. Again this is an ad for a gym. Any group or business that wants to purchase an ad can do so. No muslim or athiest groups have ever offered to purchase an ad in the past and I'm sure if they do so now it will only be to rile up people in the community. The question is in my opinion should a group be prohibited from advertising on school property simply because it has Christ in it's name? There are other ads on the field bought by local churches that do not contain the name Christ that have not been removed. Why should this organization be limited from where they can advertise simply because of the name? When MohammadFit steps up and brings they money, bring it.

  7. #37
    Champ TYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Liberal democrats are intolerant.

  8. #38
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Looks like common sense has prevailed, after reading Gonzo's post.

    But, I was gonna add, using Joe's Bar-B-Q as an example, is the school promoting bar-b-q over hamburgers, fried chicken, whatever! simply because Joe's paid for an ad, and other food establishments have not?

    Of course not.

  9. #39
    Champ arkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond reputearkansasbob has a reputation beyond repute arkansasbob's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    That would be a good way to prove that there was an intent to discriminate, but not really required.

    This ad also included a Bible verse, BTW.

    Do you think it matters in this case that the ad was paid for and designed by a third party? What if the school just took it on its own to paint a cross and bible verse on its field? Can we agree that violates the Constitution? If so, surely you can see the problem with using third party funding as a potential loophole.
    you seem to be imputing intent where none is evident. but what about my question: how many people would consider a muslim advertisement a violation of their religious liberty?

  10. #40
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Quote Originally Posted by arkansasbob View Post
    you seem to be imputing intent where none is evident. but what about my question: how many people would consider a muslim advertisement a violation of their religious liberty?
    Intent to discriminate would be a straight 14th amendment violation.

    A demonstration of preference doesnít really require intent. And if the Muslim advertisement (including Quran verse) in the same context, a public school with majority Muslim students and Islamic displays and prayers (like in the complaint regarding Benton High - did you read it?) would surely be seen as showing preference and I would bet many Christians would consider it a violation of their religious liberty. Zero doubt on that one.

  11. #41
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Quote Originally Posted by GonzoDawg View Post
    It's interesting that the comparison of "would this be ok if it was muslim" is being used. No muslim group has come forward and offered to pay for an ad, ever. They are more than welcome to advertise in the school program or buy an ad anywhere they want to. There was no complaint from anyone in the community. The parish school board is being sued over a separate issue by a group called something like the freedom from religion group, I don't know the actual name. That group is being represented by the ACLU. The ChristFit logo was on the field all of last year. Someone within the administration thought that because of the battle they are in with the freedom from religion group that they didn't want to bring any more attention to the issue and recommended the logo that was paid for by Christ Fit be painted over. It was initially painted over. There was a big backlash from the community. ChristFit is a very popular place to work out. The school board met again and decided to put the ad back on the field. Again this is an ad for a gym. Any group or business that wants to purchase an ad can do so. No muslim or athiest groups have ever offered to purchase an ad in the past and I'm sure if they do so now it will only be to rile up people in the community. The question is in my opinion should a group be prohibited from advertising on school property simply because it has Christ in it's name? There are other ads on the field bought by local churches that do not contain the name Christ that have not been removed. Why should this organization be limited from where they can advertise simply because of the name? When MohammadFit steps up and brings they money, bring it.
    Do you think the names of the families that are represented by ACLU should be named? The complaint reports that they represent 3 families that have students in the school.

    But I donít believe that you believe for a minute that Benton High would be willing to post an ad for a Satanic church for the same money.

  12. #42
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    If the Freedom from Religion group knew they could post an ad in such a prominent location for such a price, they would be all over that.

  13. #43
    Hunter Lee's Hero HogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond reputeHogDawg has a reputation beyond repute HogDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    The Bossier Parish School Board’s legal counsel advised the high school’s administration that the logo should be removed, pending consultation with the court.
    But of course, you CAN get away with this kind of nonsense in Louisiana. Is anyone here really surprised?

  14. #44
    Champ GonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond repute GonzoDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Do you think the names of the families that are represented by ACLU should be named? The complaint reports that they represent 3 families that have students in the school.

    But I donít believe that you believe for a minute that Benton High would be willing to post an ad for a Satanic church for the same money.
    My point was that non offered. They are only upset because a christian business did. It's not a family that the ACLU is representing it is a political group. I have a feeling that ChristFit is going to win out on this one. I think it may go all the way to the SCOTUS. By using the logic that this represents the state forming a religion would be about as logical as saying Tubbs Hardware's ad is establishing Ex Mark as the national mower brand.

  15. #45
    Champ GonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoDawg has a reputation beyond repute GonzoDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Happening in our back yard

    It's not a secret that schools sell ads to help pay for sports. In their programs and on their fields. Had they asked and were turned down they certainly would have a reason to be unhappy.

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