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Maybe. Maybe Not.Originally Posted by PawDawg
Holtz has had three 9 win seasons. He is not comparable to Bicknell. Did you think Dooley was better? Dykes?
If you do not think Tech football is growing you are coming to a different stadium and atmosphere than I am. Attendance is not the best indicator of growth of a program. I am not trying to say Holtz is the GOAT and I am not saying we do not have room for improvement, but there has definitely been growth.
No maybe to it. If somebody wanted him, he'd be gone.
You want to compare winning in the Sunbelt light to winning in the WAC? Really?
I guess I'm going to a different stadium then. Our game day atmosphere is horrible. Our AD is mostly to blame, but losing consistently at home like Holtz does hurts as well. Not sure why you think attendance is not the best indicator. It is the ONLY indicator.
I'm not saying I want Holtz fired. Our goof ball AD certainly could not find a better hire. All I want is for Holtz to do the simple things like win at home and allow special teams to play the game.
there has been no entertainment value from Tech football for a few years now.
There is no reason to fire Holtz either though. The outside world would say 4 winning seasons with 4 bowl wins in a row and with 2 conference championship game appearances is getting it done. Would a future coaching candidate take this job for this kind of money if 8 wins, bowl wins, and conference championship game appearances ever other year gets you fired?
The conference debate is a whole different issue. I don't think either of us has the time to debate this now.
How long have you been coming to Tech games? I do not think it is the best game day experience in college football and there is always something to improve on, but I just do not know what you are comparing our game day experience too. What do you want? What are you comparing it too?
Attendance does not always stack up, especially in today's world. It is definitely a factor, but there are other factors of growth, I guess you would exclude, 1. Money coming into the program 2. Winning Football Games 3. Better Facilities/Concessions 4. Recruiting. 5. Fan interaction (the Tech alley and player walk). We have made strides in trying to improve the experience.
AT SOME POINT... you have to set a goal of winning the conference you’re in. This will be the 6th year under Holtz, and it hasn’t happened yet. So, what should be the timeline for evaluation? 7 years, 10 years, 20? If he can’t do it in a bad league with a roster full of talent, what does he need to do it? Seriously people, every year it’s another team winning it. Rice, Marshall, WKU, WKU, FAU, and this year probably UAB. For real, RICE can win it, WKU fresh from the Sun Belt along with FAU and a team that just got their football team back can claim it, but we can’t? I’m not saying Fire Holtz, I’m asking at what point should you expect your HC to win conference in the worst conference in the league? What’s the timeline? I’ll hang up and listen...
Tech has won 2 conference championships in 21 years of FBS football (2001 and 2011). It seems that 1 every 10 years is the norm. So I would expect another by 2021 or we are off pace. But we had a bit of bad luck in 2014 and 2016 because Marshall (#26) and WKU (#21) were the 2 best teams this CUSA has had.... and we had to play them on the road in the championship games.
21 years:
3 in the Big West (0)
13 in the WAC (2)
5 in CUSA (0)
So 10 years is our benchmark in this conference? You can’t compare our days in the WAC to this. It was a much tougher league top to bottom than CUSA has ever been.
Not for this conference, just traditionally, we win a conference every 10 years. We have had better teams under Holtz than we were in the WAC. For example the 2014 team (#33) was ranked higher than the 2011 team (#39).... but 2011 was a championship team. I would say that meant 2014 CUSA was tougher to win than the 2011 WAC was. I think it's easier to look at how good we were (Sagarin ratings) than how good our competition was.
FAU was a door mat. Then, get this, Kiffen shows up and viola they are (in some folks mind) a program to fear.
No big change in talent. Just a coach that took his and beat ours and several others.
I believe it’s attributed to Bear Bryant. Asked about an opposing coach he said, “he can take your players and beat his and he can take his and beat yours.
I want that coach. I don’t think (and never have) Holtz is that type coach.
Serious question here. Would you rather be FAU or Tech today?
In the last 5 years FAU has had 1 winning season and 1 bowl win. Last year under Kiffin. Do you expect Kiffin to stay longer than this year if he receives a better offer? I doubt it. So, they are back to losing football games unless they get lucky, like they did with Kiffin. Kiffin is not going to stick around and build anything at FAU. Do you want a program or 1 conference championship to tout years to come. Remember that one good year we had...
Tech on the other hand has had 4 winning seasons and 4 bowl wins. We have gone to 2 conference championships for CUSA, we just have not won it yet. Is that disappointing not to win a conference title, absolutely. But I would not trade positions with FAU today.
I would rather build a legitimate program and continue to make the necessary strides to grow our football program and university into a great mid-major program.
Boca has nude beaches, so ...
Let’s take the 4 winning seasons and 4 bowl games argument...Has attendance improved? Has game day atmosphere and tailgating improved? Has the competition improved? We do have a new press box and south end zone complex....projects which probably have their roots long before Holtz and Tmac...we haven’t had a crappy concessions thread this year.....so that is an improvement.
How is student involvement? Most of our current donors probably attended Tech in the glory years of the 70’s. Are we doing enough now to keep a future generation of donors contributing? I personally know a lot of alum from the late 80’s though mid nineties that haven’t even been back for a game much less financially support their alma mater.
There is no such thing as a mid-major program.
Let's look at some other coaches in the same situation Skip is in now. Just a few, off the top of my head, all within the last 2 or 3 years.
Todd Graham (Arizona State) 6 seasons, 5 bowl games. 2 Top 25 finishes. 1 Pac 12 division title. 46-32 record. FIRED.
Jim Mora (UCLA) 6 seasons, 4 bowl games. 2 Top 25 finishes. 1 Pac 12 division title. 46-30 record. FIRED.
Jim McElwain (Florida) 2+ seasons, 2 bowl games. 2 Top 25 finishes. 2 SEC division titles. 22-12 record. FIRED
Les Miles (LSU) 11+ seasons, 11 bowl games. 1 national championship, 1 national championship loss. 9 Top 25 finishes. 5 Top 10 finishes. 114-34 record. FIRED.
Mark Richt (Georgia) 15 seasons, 15 bowl games. 12 Top 25 finishes. 8 Top 10 finishes. 2 SEC titles. 4 other SEC East titles. 145-51 record. FIRED.
Every one of these guys achieved way more than Skip has at Tech. All of them had a higher winning percentage than Holtz has at Tech. They all coached multiple ranked teams. 2 of them won multiple conference championships. Yet they all got fired. Why? Because it was believed that none of them could take the team to the next level, even though we have national and conference championship winners in that group. Once you feel your guy cannot take you to the next level you have to think about making a change, it happens all the time. If we are not champsions this year it is time too make a change.
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