FOOTBALL
Louisiana Tech
vs Hawaii
Dec 22, 2018 | ESPN | 9:30 PM
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    29,102

    California Fires

    Trump tweeted a lot of the blame for the fires...at least for the severity of the fires....lies squarely on the libs, the goofy State of California, and their dangerous forest management policies. Of course, and predictably, the left has gone ballistic, deflecting the blame to man-made global warming/climate change.

    I worked for the US Forest Service...I was stationed in southern Oregon, but our duties often took us across the state line into California. Later when I worked for a major timber company, I was again in Oregon...specifically on the slopes of Mt. St Helen...and exposed to the mind-boggling left-coast policies. Back in 1978 I engaged in a, ahem, "discussion" with environmental wackos regarding forest management policy. I told them then, if you follow such a policy you WILL suffer the consequences of fires that can NOT be controlled. Property will be destroyed and people will die.

    So! let's give the wackos their contention that climate change is occurring, whatever the sources of it. Okay...given that...then it is even MORE CRITICAL that proper forest management practices be followed! You can implement proper, scientific (silviculture) forest management "best practices" to minimize the effects of a climate that is getting "warmer and drier." The west, with its mountains, and dry climate, is a tough place to control wildfires. I have been on major "project fires" in both Oregon and California. I have been on the front lines....those fire lines...sometimes working 16-hour shifts for many days at a time. I've witnessed what fire can do out there. But, knowing that, it is incumbent upon "leaders" to take steps, such as proven pre-suppression practices that, won't stop fires from happening, but will control and minimize the spread of fire.

    There is a whole segment of Forest Management dedicated to fire. Like all forest management professionals....required CLUs...I attended "Fire School" to earn, and keep, my "red card." A certified Forest Fire Manager.

    So, Trump is right. The deaths of those 70+ people and the $billions of property loss is solely on the hands of the wackos. Of Governor MoonBeam who vetoed bi-partisan legislation aimed at trying to minimize the risk. Ya know...officials in Flint, Michigan have been convicted for manslaughter for their negligence in the water treatment system. MoonBeam and all his criminal associates in the environmental wacko circle are equally guilty of murdering those 70 people. Indict 'em all!

  2. #2
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    21,053

    Re: California Fires

    Hmmm. Well, the Woolsey fire started at the Santa Susana Field Laboratory.


    Of the approximately 33 million acres of forest in California, federal agencies (including the USDA Forest Service and USDI Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service) own and manage 19 million acres (57%). State and local agencies including CalFire, local open space, park and water districts and land trusts own another 3%. 40% of California's forestland is owned by families, Native American tribes, or companies. Industrial timber companies own 5 million acres (14%). 9 million acres are owned by individuals with nearly 90% of these owners having less than 50 acres of forest land.

    https://ucanr.edu/sites/forestry/California_forests/

    If forest management is to blame, it looks like there is plenty to blame to share with the feds and individual/families owning land. The state of California owns 3% of its forests. I wonder if Trump knew any of this.

  3. #3
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    29,102

    Re: California Fires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Hmmm. Well, the Woolsey fire started at the Santa Susana Field Laboratory.


    Of the approximately 33 million acres of forest in California, federal agencies (including the USDA Forest Service and USDI Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service) own and manage 19 million acres (57%). State and local agencies including CalFire, local open space, park and water districts and land trusts own another 3%. 40% of California's forestland is owned by families, Native American tribes, or companies. Industrial timber companies own 5 million acres (14%). 9 million acres are owned by individuals with nearly 90% of these owners having less than 50 acres of forest land.

    https://ucanr.edu/sites/forestry/California_forests/

    If forest management is to blame, it looks like there is plenty to blame to share with the feds and individual/families owning land. The state of California owns 3% of its forests. I wonder if Trump knew any of this.
    Well...states pass environmental laws which PREVENT people from doing such things as control burns and other pre-suppression measures. Doesn't matter who owns the property when the state forbids...under penalty of law, huge fines!...people from conducting best practices. That's the issue and that's what Trump was referring to.

    I know you jump on anything and everything Trump does seeking to find fault. That's why you have zero credibility in this matter. In this case all Trump was commenting on is what he has been told (correctly) by state officials in California. Again, Governor MoonBeam vetoed bi-partisan legislation designed to minimize the effects of wildfire and also new laws governing power lines. Which I find curious....what possible objections could he have to making power lines safer re: starting fires? That should have been a slam dunk.

    Sorry....Trump was provided correct information.

  4. #4
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    21,053

    Re: California Fires

    What does California do to prevent people from doing controlled burns and presuppression?

  5. #5
    Champ saltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your time saltydawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southern Nevada
    Posts
    11,192

    Re: California Fires

    Governor Brown Issues Executive Order to Protect Communities from Wildfire, Climate Impacts

    Published: May 10, 2018
    SACRAMENTO – In the face of the worst wildfires in California’s history, Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. today issued an executive order to combat dangerous tree mortality, increase the ability of our forests to capture carbon and systematically improve forest management.
    “Devastating forest fires are a profound challenge to California,” said Governor Brown. “I intend to mobilize the resources of the state to protect our forests and ensure they absorb carbon to the maximum degree.”
    Key elements of the order include:
    • Doubling the land actively managed through vegetation thinning, controlled fires and reforestation from 250,000 acres to 500,000 acres.
    • Launching new training and certification programs to help promote forest health through prescribed burning.
    • Boosting education and outreach to landowners on the most effective ways to reduce vegetation and other forest-fire fuel sources on private lands.
    • Streamlining permitting for landowner-initiated projects that improve forest health and reduce forest-fire fuels on their properties.
    • Supporting the innovative use of forest products by the building industry.
    • Expanding grants, training and other incentives to improve watersheds.
    Today’s order will improve the health of the state’s forests and help mitigate the threat and impacts of deadly and destructive wildfires, which hinder the state’s progress towards its climate goals. Forests serve as the state’s largest land-based carbon sink, drawing carbon from the atmosphere and storing it in trees and shrubs and in forest soils. But even a single wildfire can immediately cancel all those benefits.
    The Governor’s May budget revision – to be released tomorrow – will include $96 million (from various funding sources) to support these actions. This $96 million comes in addition to $160 million proposed in January’s Cap and Trade expenditure plan to support forest improvements and fire protection.
    A Forest Management Task Force will be convened in the coming weeks to help implement this order and its accompanying Forest Carbon Plan, which was finalized today following more than a year of development and public outreach.
    Today’s executive order follows the commitment the Governor made during this year’s State of the Stateaddress to thoroughly review – and improve – how the state manages its forests and reduces the threat of devastating fires.
    Eight of the state’s 20 most destructive fires have occurred in the past four years. Last winter’s Thomas Fire in Ventura and Santa Barbara counties was the largest in recorded history.
    Yesterday, the California Environmental Protection Agency released new findings on the significant and growing impacts of climate change in California, noting that fires, drought, sea level rise and record heat pose an immediate and escalating danger to California’s ecosystems, wildlife, public health and economy.
    Since convening a Tree Mortality Task Force in 2015, more than 1.2 million dead or dying trees have already been removed from the state’s forests.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" -- Thomas Jefferson



  6. #6
    Varsity Bulldog tech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of light
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, LA.
    Posts
    461

    Re: California Fires

    It's a shame that this unbiased information will not be presented to the public, and these policies are responsible for the deaths of people !

  7. #7
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    29,102

    Re: California Fires

    Good for Governor MoonBeam! No, really, no sarcasm intended. But! notice the one line item: doubling the amount of acres, 250K to 500K, that is now allowed to practice some measures.

    Sorry, but there should be no such restriction. And the order was just signed this past May, after decades and decades of neglect. I was out there in 1978 and again in 1980...that is 40 years ago! and it was a HUGE problem then. It was already out of hand. Now, after 40 more years of neglect we get this 500K acre allowance. Now...guess who gets to "permit" said measures and who gets to determine which acres can be included toward that 500K total. The same environmental wackos who caused the problems in the first place.

    So, while I applaud Governor MoonBeam for at least taking this step...and it's a HUGE step for him. Let's not fall into that same old trap of "well, see! the government is doing something about it, quit worrying."

    And another thing. I am a professional forester by education and trade, spent 20+ years practicing the craft. I LOVE THE FOREST!! As an "industrial forester" for IP I, we, because there are others who share the passion, protected the forests we loved while providing important natural resources for paper-making, and plywood, and dimension lumber, as well as all the by-products of the industry, including some types of plastics that use the residue of the paper-making process as an ingredient. Products too many people take for granted.

    I'll touch on that "industrial forester" label in another post.

    And so, while out in Oregon-California it pained me to see an unhealthy forest. The trees slowly dying, suffocating under the weight of their own litter. Disease, insect-infestations, fungus growth, cankers, that would twist the trunks of mighty pines. And none of it necessary. Wildlife that needed, and would have greatly benefitted from, a properly managed forest. The wackos screaming "do nothing!" let nature handle it, they insisted. Sorry, but we do a MUCH better job of caring for the forests, and all the little critters, than Mother Nature could even dream of. NOT TO MENTION the obvious fire hazards that exist.

    Criminal indictment for the deaths of those 80 people should be issued. Make the wackos pay for the negligent homicides they are guilty of. Many of those same type of "wackos" applauded the criminal prosecutions of the officials in Flint for their negligence. And I do too! Clean water is my new passion! And I also understand the importance of sound watershed management, which includes healthy forests that protect many of the creeks and streams that are the foundation of the rivers we get our drinking water from. It all works together.

  8. #8
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    21,053

    Re: California Fires

    Doubling the land that was actively managed isnít the same thing as not allowing people to thin their own property.

    But the conditions that caused the current problem has more to do with the 5 year drought that has resulted in large numbers of unhealthy and dead trees that easily ignite.

  9. #9
    Champ TYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    47,213

    Re: California Fires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Doubling the land that was actively managed isnít the same thing as not allowing people to thin their own property.

    But the conditions that caused the current problem has more to do with the 5 year drought that has resulted in large numbers of unhealthy and dead trees that easily ignite.
    Typical liberal "tree hugger management" hurts much worse. Even in a drought the underbrush and growth should be cleared to make these fires more manageable and less likely to spread so fast killing many in it's path period. But no....the left coasters talk and sing to the trees (some even have sex with trees) and don't want the living underbrush and broken limbs etc.."the tree's dead" carted off and burned.

    If I were a betting man I bet too many dollars have gone to the illegal aliens and PC crappola organizations in the big cities. In fact I would bet they took money from forest management for these.

  10. #10
    Varsity Bulldog tech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of lighttech70 is a glorious beacon of light
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, LA.
    Posts
    461

    Re: California Fires

    I wish your information could be presented in a way that would force needed changes . A law suit against the Governor( this way it would get needed press coverage) for wrongful death for gross mismanagement of the forests might do something .
    I hate to suggest this as a remedy but I am at a loss as to how to get this information to enough people to cause a legislative change .
    It's a crime that this has not been addressed before now and I mean a real crime as people have died, not to mention the property damage and emotional distress .

  11. #11
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    21,053

    Re: California Fires

    Quote Originally Posted by tech70 View Post
    I wish your information could be presented in a way that would force needed changes . A law suit against the Governor( this way it would get needed press coverage) for wrongful death for gross mismanagement of the forests might do something .
    I hate to suggest this as a remedy but I am at a loss as to how to get this information to enough people to cause a legislative change .
    It's a crime that this has not been addressed before now and I mean a real crime as people have died, not to mention the property damage and emotional distress .
    Donít let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

  12. #12
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    29,102

    Re: California Fires

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Doubling the land that was actively managed isn’t the same thing as not allowing people to thin their own property.

    But the conditions that caused the current problem has more to do with the 5 year drought that has resulted in large numbers of unhealthy and dead trees that easily ignite.
    Exactly! and when nature screws things up and endangers life and property it's more incumbent on folks in charge to engage in pre-suppression measures. I don't have to be told about all the challenges faced in forest management in general, and in the arid mountainous west in particular, I know. I acknowledged those challenges in the first post. I was out there, on the ground, engaged in the management of western forests. I spent the bulk of my time in Ponderosa, Lodgepole, and Western White pine forests. The Lodgepole was particularly troubling.

    It'll never be a "perfect" situation. Some landowners will not engage in pre-suppression measures due to the cost and the heretofore time-consuming red tape in the permitting process. Both of those are a factor in the South where we have some of the most forest friendly policies anywhere in the world. In Louisiana one still have to get a permit from the State Office of Forestry to conduct control burns. That is true of individuals. Large industrial landowners have only to advise the Office of Forestry of the location, acres, and duration of a burn since all such have professional foresters, graduates of Fire School, and so no formal permit is required. BUT! sometimes the Office of Forestry will ask the timber company to hold off for a day or so, just in case other scheduled fires get out of control and the timber company's fire-fighting crews are needed elsewhere.

    There is a tremendous cooperative agreement between the US Forest Service, the State Office of Forestry, timber companies, and the larger individual landowners to manage fire in Louisiana's forests. When a wildfire occurs a call goes out and everyone responds. My IP crews worked along side of other timber companies' crews, Forest Service and State crews, and it did not matter whose land it was. When a fire gets big enough such that all other forest management practices are suspended, that is called a "project fire," and like a hurricane it will earn a name....usually a landmark of some kind. The Black Creek Fire in Grant Parish was one such project fire. I was the first FORESTER on the scene and assumed the position of "Fire Boss." I was in contact via radio with the state's spotter plane, the helicopters arriving with water buckets, and the various crews answering the call. Soon after, we established two suppression lines, and I appointed a "Line Boss" for each. Larger fires, like out west, will often divide the lines into sectors, with a "Sector Boss" in charge, and of course each fire-fighting crew has its own "Crew Boss." It's conducted like a military operation.

    On the Black Creek Fire, which we fought for 3 days, I was Fire Boss for the first day, all night, until about 10am the next morning when the State's Fire Manager arrived out of Baton Rouge. He asked if I wanted to relinquish being Fire Boss, which I gladly did. I met with him and passed on all the information I had...how many crews were out there, where they were, etc... By that time I had three of IP's crews on the scene, so I reverted to just being Crew Boss and taking care of my guys...three dozers and about 10 firefighters.

    Next to coaching....which I loved...fighting forest fire is the best job I've ever had. I loved it! the adrenalin pumping, the danger, the excitement, and knowing you were saving property and sometimes lives...which we never had any civilian fatalities. Had one loss...a State's dozer got tangled in downed powerlines, after a burning tree fell and took out the lines, dropping them on the dozer. He was electrocuted. Terrible loss. I knew him well.

    But, fighting fire out west is a totally different beast than what we generally see in the South.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts