Hitler vs. Stalin vs. Mao

[dawg80]

Three despicable dictators and murderers. They are all bad. Let's get that straight from the git-go.

But, you may notice when the Left wants to impugn someone (like President Trump) they call him "Hitler." Why not "Stalin" or "Mao"? That's because Stalin and Mao represent something good to the Left....communism. Knowing how gullible, ignorant, and easily misled the typical leftist voter is, they simply don't cast Stalin or Mao as being bad people. They don't want "communism" linked to bad historic actors. Only Hitler is bad. Of course those of us who actually KNOW something, know that Hitler was a good ole socialist.

I am reading a book on 'Operation Barbarossa' the German invasion of the USSR in WWII. Very detailed and all-encompassing accounting of that invasion, June, 1941 to January, 1942.

Stalin was a piece of work. He murdered his own people....of course we know that already...but in this case, he murdered, and would have murdered even more if the situation warranted it. For instance...northwest of Moscow is a fertile valley, a breadbasket of farm land. The area was occupied by "peasants" (farmers) in several small villages. A river was dammed to control flooding in the valley. When the German Army approached this valley, Stalin ordered the dams be mined and to be blown up, flooding the valley, and blocking the roads that crossed it. A Russian general, who was from that area...had family there...asked permission to remove the peasants, evacuate them to high ground. Fearing this might tip off the Germans, Stalin said no. The general pleaded, but Stalin said no. Thinking this general might act on his own, against his wishes, Stalin had the KGB follow that general back to his HQ, and murder him. A few days later, without warning, the dams were blown. A wall of water 18 feet high surged down the valley....6,000 Russian civilians drowned. A German scout plane spotted the engineers on the dam about an hour before the blasts, and alerted the army. Not a single German soldier was affected. The flooded valley did slow the German advance in that sector, forcing the Germans to build pontoon bridges.

The city of Tula, about 40 miles south of Moscow, was home to critical industry. There were two ammo factories, and two repair facilities for Russian military equipment. Stalin ordered those plants to operate 24/7 and he had them mined as well. A KGB officer, and a local Communist Party representative, manned a bunker about a 1/2 mile outside of this complex. There was a heavy fence around the complex, and a bridge on the major highway. Their orders were to hit the button when the first German vehicle approached that bridge. The entire complex was mined with explosives...it was not to fall into German hands. Inside were 10,000 workers, and their combined families, not allowed to leave the complex. Everyone would have been killed had those two ammo plants been blown up. But Stalin wanted them operating up to the very last moment. Fortunately, for those Russian civilians, the German advance was stopped 10 miles away.

During 1937-38 Stalin murdered 30,000 army officers. He murdered....who really knows the actual number....MILLIONS of Russian, and other eastern Europeans. He particularly murdered "kulaks." That's a term for "upper middle class." Stalin feared, and despised, those who had been successful without the Communist Party. These were farmers and merchants, and what we would call "professionals." Educated and successful in their chosen careers. He didn't murder as many Russian kulaks as he did other nationalities, especially those from Poland and Ukraine. Best estimates place the Russian kulaks murdered at a mere 200,000. The rest were offered a chance to join the Communist Party...which they did out of self-preservation.

Yes sir! Joseph Stalin is a poster child for communism. A real hero! I bet goosey has a poster of Stalin on his wall. Most of us had Farrah Fawcett...

[Amos Moses]

Three despicable dictators and murderers. They are all bad. Let's get that straight from the git-go.

But, you may notice when the Left wants to impugn someone (like President Trump) they call him "Hitler." Why not "Stalin" or "Mao"? That's because Stalin and Mao represent something good to the Left....communism. Knowing how gullible, ignorant, and easily misled the typical leftist voter is, they simply don't cast Stalin or Mao as being bad people. They don't want "communism" linked to bad historic actors. Only Hitler is bad. Of course those of us who actually KNOW something, know that Hitler was a good ole socialist.

I am reading a book on 'Operation Barbarossa' the German invasion of the USSR in WWII. Very detailed and all-encompassing accounting of that invasion, June, 1941 to January, 1942.

Stalin was a piece of work. He murdered his own people....of course we know that already...but in this case, he murdered, and would have murdered even more if the situation warranted it. For instance...northwest of Moscow is a fertile valley, a breadbasket of farm land. The area was occupied by "peasants" (farmers) in several small villages. A river was dammed to control flooding in the valley. When the German Army approached this valley, Stalin ordered the dams be mined and to be blown up, flooding the valley, and blocking the roads that crossed it. A Russian general, who was from that area...had family there...asked permission to remove the peasants, evacuate them to high ground. Fearing this might tip off the Germans, Stalin said no. The general pleaded, but Stalin said no. Thinking this general might act on his own, against his wishes, Stalin had the KGB follow that general back to his HQ, and murder him. A few days later, without warning, the dams were blown. A wall of water 18 feet high surged down the valley....6,000 Russian civilians drowned. A German scout plane spotted the engineers on the dam about an hour before the blasts, and alerted the army. Not a single German soldier was affected. The flooded valley did slow the German advance in that sector, forcing the Germans to build pontoon bridges.

The city of Tula, about 40 miles south of Moscow, was home to critical industry. There were two ammo factories, and two repair facilities for Russian military equipment. Stalin ordered those plants to operate 24/7 and he had them mined as well. A KGB officer, and a local Communist Party representative, manned a bunker about a 1/2 mile outside of this complex. There was a heavy fence around the complex, and a bridge on the major highway. Their orders were to hit the button when the first German vehicle approached that bridge. The entire complex was mined with explosives...it was not to fall into German hands. Inside were 10,000 workers, and their combined families, not allowed to leave the complex. Everyone would have been killed had those two ammo plants been blown up. But Stalin wanted them operating up to the very last moment. Fortunately, for those Russian civilians, the German advance was stopped 10 miles away.

During 1937-38 Stalin murdered 30,000 army officers. He murdered....who really knows the actual number....MILLIONS of Russian, and other eastern Europeans. He particularly murdered "kulaks." That's a term for "upper middle class." Stalin feared, and despised, those who had been successful without the Communist Party. These were farmers and merchants, and what we would call "professionals." Educated and successful in their chosen careers. He didn't murder as many Russian kulaks as he did other nationalities, especially those from Poland and Ukraine. Best estimates place the Russian kulaks murdered at a mere 200,000. The rest were offered a chance to join the Communist Party...which they did out of self-preservation.

Yes sir! Joseph Stalin is a poster child for communism. A real hero! I bet goosey has a poster of Stalin on his wall. Most of us had Farrah Fawcett...

Quite a pair...Hitler and Stalin. You mentioned Mao. Here is an excerpt about Chairman Mao:

In 1958, in an attempt to introduce a more 'Chinese' form of communism, Mao launched the 'Great Leap Forward'. This aimed at mass mobilisation of labour to improve agricultural and industrial production. The result, instead, was a massive decline in agricultural output, which, together with poor harvests, led to famine and the deaths of millions. The policy was abandoned and Mao's position weakened.
In an attempt to re-assert his authority, Mao launched the 'Cultural Revolution' in 1966, aiming to purge the country of 'impure' elements and revive the revolutionary spirit. One-and-a-half million people died and much of the country's cultural heritage was destroyed. In September 1967, with many cities on the verge of anarchy, Mao sent in the army to restore order.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Great thread! To bad our liberal, democrat educators at all levels, but especially in JH and HS, aren't teaching this to American students.

[dawg80]

If you do an Internet search (Bing!) you will find numerous sites all showing different numbers. That's due in large part to the third world condition of China, and the USSR, and because the Nazis didn't want to keep records of their victims. So, all we have are guesstimates. Also, "civilian" deaths are defined differently, based on motives and the means. No one really knows how many people Mao murdered because no one really knows how many Chinese people there were. To a certain extent, that is true of Stalin's USSR too. But, based on the most dependable sources, and including both direct and indirect killing, the numbers, on the high side are:

Hitler 11 million
Stalin 20 million
Mao 60 million

This is NOT to excuse Hitler because he lagged behind his commie counterparts. So, please spare me that. The only point is to be reminded, the commies were much worse.

Ya know....General Patton thought we allied with the wrong side. Given how much trouble the USSR, now Putin's Russia, has been, and that Germany is now an ally and an accepted member of peaceful, stable nations, maybe he was on to something.

There's a speculative documentary on what would have happened had the war in Europe been just Hitler vs. Stalin; if all the western allies remained neutral, did not support the Soviets thru lend-lease, and generally left the USSR totally on its own. The producers of that documentary say Germany would have prevailed, after a tough fight. After that Hitler would have executed Stalin and all the Communist Party leadership. As it was, the Germans nearly beat the Soviets even while defending the Atlantic Wall and Scandinava, and Italy and other Mediterranean islands, etc...which tied up 2 million of Hitler's best troops. If the Germans could have committed those crack units to the invasion of the USSR, they would have steamrolled the Soviets.

In 1940 Hitler offered Great Britain a peace treaty. It was debated in Parliament. What if GB had accepted? (they didn't, of course...)