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Thread: Baker to Miami

  1. #46
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by DurDog View Post
    Will always be the case until LaTech can start being competitive from a salary standpoint in their own conference. Reason why the staff is made up of either young, inexperienced coaches or coaches in the twilight of their careers. That's what is affordable given the embarrassing coaches salary pool that currently exists.
    This is a lie and an excuse.

    Every single coach in Football is heading two ways on the coaching ladder. Up or down. Every school not named Alabama can hire coaches going up or going down.

    We can hire coaches climbing the ladder vs those sliding down the ladder. We choose not to.

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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    I doubt it considering who is in charge of that type thing.
    How do you structure a buyout without a longer term contract?

    In general, I agree with you that the contracts are not determinative (most of the arguments I've seen have said that, when the coach leaves, which they will regardless, you pad your pocket a little). I know you've been staunchly against contracts for staff. Just wondering how a buy-out would work for a guy on a year to year contract.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by revf View Post
    This is a lie and an excuse.

    Every single coach in Football is heading two ways on the coaching ladder. Up or down. Every school not named Alabama can hire coaches going up or going down.

    We can hire coaches climbing the ladder vs those sliding down the ladder. We choose not to.
    Definitely not a lie and call it an excuse if you wish, but reality is financially Tech is not competitive. If all you can afford is X, then you are going to get one of 2 things, inexperience or re-treads. Maybe once in a blue moon you'll get lucky and get a Manny type, but we've seen how long that lasts.


    Believe it or not, it's fact, not based on my opinion but based on what I've been told.

  4. #49
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    It was the easy way out for Holtz and Holtz ran the defense in year 1. He gave him more rope in year 2, then rewarded him with the new contract. Not many of us thought he deserved a new contract. I didn't. It worked out for all concerned, but the contract was really a silly thing to do. Baker wasn't going anywhere yet we paid him much more for two years. Another fail by our AD.
    Blake Baker Pay

    2014 - $75K Safeties (Manny made $180K as DC that year) - 34th in total defense
    2015 - $140K DC - 48th in total defense
    2016 - $208K DC - 71st in total defense
    2017 - $200K DC - 60th in total defense
    2018 - $205K DC - 27th in total defense

    And not sure what you meant by contract, but none of our assistants, including coordinators, have contracts.

    I need to stay off of here, because it's a full time job fact checking you...

  5. #50
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by DurDog View Post
    Will always be the case until LaTech can start being competitive from a salary standpoint in their own conference. Reason why the staff is made up of either young, inexperienced coaches or coaches in the twilight of their careers. That's what is affordable given the embarrassing coaches salary pool that currently exists.
    We've never lost a bad coach because of low salaries, but we sure retain some who make more than they are worth. We've only lost two coaches to lateral moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    How do you structure a buyout without a longer term contract?

    In general, I agree with you that the contracts are not determinative (most of the arguments I've seen have said that, when the coach leaves, which they will regardless, you pad your pocket a little). I know you've been staunchly against contracts for staff. Just wondering how a buy-out would work for a guy on a year to year contract.
    You are right. Contracts for assistants won't work for us. I was just taking a shot at the lack of ability our AD has to structure ANY contract with ANY coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by zharkins View Post
    Blake Baker Pay

    2014 - $75K Safeties (Manny made $180K as DC that year) - 34th in total defense
    2015 - $140K DC - 48th in total defense
    2016 - $208K DC - 71st in total defense
    2017 - $200K DC - 60th in total defense
    2018 - $205K DC - 27th in total defense

    And not sure what you meant by contract, but none of our assistants, including coordinators, have contracts.

    I need to stay off of here, because it's a full time job fact checking you...
    I've already set your straight on the money game thing with future P5s. You were WAY wrong on your assumptions so fact check yourself first from now on.

    I've never been in favor of contracts for assistants. They are useless. See my above post to J.L..
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  6. #51
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    I've already set your straight on the money game thing with future P5s. You were WAY wrong on your assumptions so fact check yourself first from now on.
    You set me straight? I was WAY wrong on my assumptions?

    I simply stated facts that Baylor was paying us $500K in 2020 and that was the equivalent to about half of a payout in return for the 2 for 1 setup. You tell me what is better? A home and home with South Alabama/Bowling Green/UNLV and a $1.1 million payday at a P5, or hosting a real team once in a while and giving up the $500K in guarantee hoping you can recoup some of that in selling tickets to Baylor fans, increasing season ticket sales, and increasing LTAC donations (although it probably won't all add up to make up the entire difference). I know I know, a real AD should get LSU to come to Ruston on a home and home. I know where your bar is set.

    As for NC State, you guessing that maybe, just maybe they might cancel the last game of the three game contract is just you pulling assumptions out of nowhere to justify your lack of an informed opinion. Otherwise you'd have to admit that a $1.1 million guarantee from a P5 opponent we can beat, followed by a straight home and home with that same P5 opponent is actually a good deal. I don't have the contract in front of me, but it certainly would have a cancellation penalty if you are concerned about that. I already have contracts from our guarantee games at Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Texas Tech and if either party backed out of those games, the team cancelling owed the other the full guarantee amount. In home and homes with UMass and Texas A&M, the cancellation penalty was $500K. Even our game vs FCS foe South Carolina State had a $500K cancellation penalty (even though we only paid $325K to host them). So it would be fair to say that if NC State cancelled on us, they would write us a check for at least $500K.

  7. #52
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by DurDog View Post
    Definitely not a lie and call it an excuse if you wish, but reality is financially Tech is not competitive. If all you can afford is X, then you are going to get one of 2 things, inexperience or re-treads. Maybe once in a blue moon you'll get lucky and get a Manny type, but we've seen how long that lasts.


    Believe it or not, it's fact, not based on my opinion but based on what I've been told.
    I think LA Tech's pay pool for coaches is very competitive in CUSA. You have to remember, 6 of the 8 schools that pay their head coaches more than LA Tech does have hired head coaches since we have. Because of this, they've gotten caught up in the salary escalations that go with new hires. Its no coincidence that Middle Tennessee, Marshall and Louisiana Tech are in the middle of the pack on this list. And it's because they have the longest surviving head coaches in CUSA.

    http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

    The next to last column is Asst coaches pay total.

    75 North Texas C-USA Seth Littrell $1,425,000 $1,425,000 $580,000 $130,000 $1,720,000 $4,425,000
    79 Texas-San Antonio C-USA Frank Wilson $1,100,000 $1,100,000 $185,000 $17,500 $1,370,000 $3,562,500
    81 Florida Atlantic C-USA Lane Kiffin $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $1,150,000 $40,000 $1,500,000 $2,850,000
    84 Florida International C-USA Butch Davis $945,000 $945,000 $550,000 $35,000 $1,597,814 $3,185,626
    86 Alabama at Birmingham C-USA Bill Clark $900,000 $900,000 $950,000 $165,471 $1,110,250 $3,847,500
    92 Western Kentucky C-USA Mike Sanford Jr. $800,000 $805,850 $400,000 $0 $1,096,432 $1,200,000
    93 Middle Tennessee C-USA Rick Stockstill $801,504 $803,004 $126,142 $65,142 $1,263,296 $6,633,774
    95 Marshall C-USA Doc Holliday $762,570 $762,570 $145,000 $55,000 $1,232,000 $1,951,708
    97 Louisiana Tech C-USA Skip Holtz $700,000 $700,000 $395,000 $0 $1,215,000 $2,508,333
    98 Texas-El Paso C-USA Dana Dimel $700,000 $700,000 $741,665 -- $1,317,500 $2,991,667
    101 Old Dominion C-USA Bobby Wilder $654,667 $654,667 $504,895 $0 $1,129,051 $1,200,000
    104 Charlotte C-USA Brad Lambert $625,000 $625,000 $120,000 $0 $1,044,320 $556,389
    111 Southern Mississippi C-USA Jay Hopson $500,000 $500,000 $870,000 $15,000 $1,100,000 $1,583,333
    127 Rice C-USA Mike Bloomgren -- -- -- -- $0 --

  8. #53
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Gee, little wonder Rice sucks. They pay their coach $0. Not much to motivate the fellow!



    (yeah, I know....the whole private school thingy)

  9. #54
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Gee, little wonder Rice sucks. They pay their coach $0. Not much to motivate the fellow!



    (yeah, I know....the whole private school thingy)
    Can you believe North Texas pays Seth Littrell over TWICE as much as Skip makes? They may want to ask for their money back.

  10. #55
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by zharkins View Post
    You set me straight? I was WAY wrong on my assumptions?

    I simply stated facts that Baylor was paying us $500K in 2020 and that was the equivalent to about half of a payout in return for the 2 for 1 setup. You tell me what is better? A home and home with South Alabama/Bowling Green/UNLV and a $1.1 million payday at a P5, or hosting a real team once in a while and giving up the $500K in guarantee hoping you can recoup some of that in selling tickets to Baylor fans, increasing season ticket sales, and increasing LTAC donations (although it probably won't all add up to make up the entire difference). I know I know, a real AD should get LSU to come to Ruston on a home and home. I know where your bar is set.

    As for NC State, you guessing that maybe, just maybe they might cancel the last game of the three game contract is just you pulling assumptions out of nowhere to justify your lack of an informed opinion. Otherwise you'd have to admit that a $1.1 million guarantee from a P5 opponent we can beat, followed by a straight home and home with that same P5 opponent is actually a good deal. I don't have the contract in front of me, but it certainly would have a cancellation penalty if you are concerned about that. I already have contracts from our guarantee games at Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Texas Tech and if either party backed out of those games, the team cancelling owed the other the full guarantee amount. In home and homes with UMass and Texas A&M, the cancellation penalty was $500K. Even our game vs FCS foe South Carolina State had a $500K cancellation penalty (even though we only paid $325K to host them). So it would be fair to say that if NC State cancelled on us, they would write us a check for at least $500K.
    We need money. We need the going rate from 2 P5s every year which is well over $2M. We can't make that up with one game in Ruston against Baylor or NCSt..

    Add to this that our AD did something in two 2 for 1 series that is unheard of. He agreed for the last game to be in Ruston and will not disclose the buyout amount.

    Please stop guessing about what that amount is. It won't be close to $500K.

    Home and home with Texas A&M? The first game was in our place.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by HogDawg View Post
    I think LA Tech's pay pool for coaches is very competitive in CUSA. You have to remember, 6 of the 8 schools that pay their head coaches more than LA Tech does have hired head coaches since we have. Because of this, they've gotten caught up in the salary escalations that go with new hires. Its no coincidence that Middle Tennessee, Marshall and Louisiana Tech are in the middle of the pack on this list. And it's because they have the longest surviving head coaches in CUSA.

    http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

    The next to last column is Asst coaches pay total.


    75 North Texas C-USA Seth Littrell $1,425,000 $1,425,000 $580,000 $130,000 $1,720,000 $4,425,000
    79 Texas-San Antonio C-USA Frank Wilson $1,100,000 $1,100,000 $185,000 $17,500 $1,370,000 $3,562,500
    81 Florida Atlantic C-USA Lane Kiffin $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $1,150,000 $40,000 $1,500,000 $2,850,000
    84 Florida International C-USA Butch Davis $945,000 $945,000 $550,000 $35,000 $1,597,814 $3,185,626
    86 Alabama at Birmingham C-USA Bill Clark $900,000 $900,000 $950,000 $165,471 $1,110,250 $3,847,500
    92 Western Kentucky C-USA Mike Sanford Jr. $800,000 $805,850 $400,000 $0 $1,096,432 $1,200,000
    93 Middle Tennessee C-USA Rick Stockstill $801,504 $803,004 $126,142 $65,142 $1,263,296 $6,633,774
    95 Marshall C-USA Doc Holliday $762,570 $762,570 $145,000 $55,000 $1,232,000 $1,951,708
    97 Louisiana Tech C-USA Skip Holtz $700,000 $700,000 $395,000 $0 $1,215,000 $2,508,333
    98 Texas-El Paso C-USA Dana Dimel $700,000 $700,000 $741,665 -- $1,317,500 $2,991,667
    101 Old Dominion C-USA Bobby Wilder $654,667 $654,667 $504,895 $0 $1,129,051 $1,200,000
    104 Charlotte C-USA Brad Lambert $625,000 $625,000 $120,000 $0 $1,044,320 $556,389
    111 Southern Mississippi C-USA Jay Hopson $500,000 $500,000 $870,000 $15,000 $1,100,000 $1,583,333
    127 Rice C-USA Mike Bloomgren -- -- -- -- $0 --
    But has does Tech rank in total coaches salary pool, not just head coach?

  12. #57
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by HogDawg View Post
    Can you believe North Texas pays Seth Littrell over TWICE as much as Skip makes? They may want to ask for their money back.
    Not sure what NT saw in him. Started his coaching career in 2005, and has now been at 5 different schools. He is 0-3 in bowls, so Holtz has him beat in that category, for sure. He is 23-17 overall, and did take over a horrible program and has at least built it into something respectful. But, so far, I don't see that NT is getting TWICE as much out of him than we are getting from Holtz. We'll see what 2019 brings and if he can win a CUSA championship for NT.

  13. #58
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    BTW, that chart needs updating. Didn't cUAB just make Clark the highest paid HC in CUSA?

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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by boxerdog View Post
    Skip hired Baker as DC. Should attribute it to dumb luck?
    Did he or was he a tag along with Manny and he gets credit....
    ''Don't be a bad dagh..."

  15. #60
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    Re: Baker to Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by HogDawg View Post
    I think LA Tech's pay pool for coaches is very competitive in CUSA. You have to remember, 6 of the 8 schools that pay their head coaches more than LA Tech does have hired head coaches since we have. Because of this, they've gotten caught up in the salary escalations that go with new hires. Its no coincidence that Middle Tennessee, Marshall and Louisiana Tech are in the middle of the pack on this list. And it's because they have the longest surviving head coaches in CUSA.

    http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

    The next to last column is Asst coaches pay total.
    Hogdawg laying the numbers down! I love it. I wasn't going to post it because I didn't think middle of the pack would meet the demands around here. Combine our competitive pay with the proven track record of our coaches nearly universally having the opportunity to move on to bigger and better paying jobs makes us the most attractive job in CUSA, in my opinion.

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