The Ark Encounter

[saltydawg]

Arkansasbob, an internet friend wrote this in response to my question about the virginal birth of Jesus (Yeshua).

"The “early Christians” who were Trinitarians (hence the virginal conception) were in the last decade of the 1st century. Christians were Gentiles. The Netseraya (Nazarenes) and Ebyona were the early Jewish family and followers.

For the first few years Yeshua’s Malkutha d’alaha (Kingdom of God) movement was called various things by both Jews and Gentiles. One designation by the Jews was also shared by the Essenes (4Q415) hinting at a relationship and that was EVyon ‎ אֶבְי֖וֹן

Meaning “poor ones” or “the needy” Evyonym. אֶבְיוֹנִ֣ים ֹ At the end of the 2nd century (180 CE) Irenaeus was the first mention of Ἐβιωναῖοι or “Ebionites” although Justin Martyr appears to have referred to them in his Dialog. It was Tertullian who invented a fictional “arch-heretic he named “bishop Ebion.”

Epiphanius writes that the Ebionites were the heirs of the Nazarenes (Panarion 30.13.7). “Nazarenes” did not mean Nazareth.

.. Isaiah 11:1 says:

wa'yatsah choter mygeza yeeshay weNETSER meeshereshyaw yeeparah

“And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stump of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots.”

The targum on Isaiah 11:1-10 w'ypwk mlk) mbnwhy dy$y w'm$yx) mbny bnwhy ytrby "There shall come forth a king from the sons of Jesse, and a messiah shall grow from the sons of his sons.

"Branch" is NETSER with a tsade, and the followers of Y'shua were called <Aram>NETSERAYA or "BRANCHERS" which Matthew translated to Greek as Nazoraios (Nazarenes) a zeta being used because there is no tsade in Greek.

The proof of this, IMO, is the close juxtaposition of YEESHAY "Jesse" with NETSER in Isaiah and that Epiphanius (Panarion 29 1, 3-9; 4, 9) reports that the followers of Y'shua were also called IESSAIOI or "Jesseans."

I have gone the long way around to say that, IMO, the term NAZARENES does NOT refer to Nazareth. It refers to the BRANCH (Messiah) that will grow from the roots of Jesse. Jesus was the "branch" whom the "Branchers" Netseraya/ Ὅτι Ναζωραῖος κληθήσεται followed.

The Matthean author plowed through Isaiah looking for anything he could find that he believed predicted Jesus and he found 11:1 and that is why he writes at 2: 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

...a pun. The Matthean author was in error but anything to prove a prophecy..

This "root" and "branch" formula is used in both Psalms and Isaiah and the targums.

This traces the line from Yeshua to the Nazarenes to the “Ebionites.. The family and followers claimed that Yeshua was an ordinary man born in the usual manner as Justin Martyr and Origen write and Epiphanius reports that there were TWO sects of Ebionites, those who denied the virgin birth and those that accepted the Gentile viewpoint. I can see how the “pure” Yeshua community in the early 2nd century would be contaminated with the virginal conception. After all they were Romans and the conferred the same type of birth to Augustus."

[detltu]

Arkansasbob, an internet friend wrote this in response to my question about the virginal birth of Jesus (Yeshua).

"The “early Christians” who were Trinitarians (hence the virginal conception) were in the last decade of the 1st century. Christians were Gentiles. The Netseraya (Nazarenes) and Ebyona were the early Jewish family and followers.

For the first few years Yeshua’s Malkutha d’alaha (Kingdom of God) movement was called various things by both Jews and Gentiles. One designation by the Jews was also shared by the Essenes (4Q415) hinting at a relationship and that was EVyon ‎ אֶבְי֖וֹן

Meaning “poor ones” or “the needy” Evyonym. אֶבְיוֹנִ֣ים ֹ At the end of the 2nd century (180 CE) Irenaeus was the first mention of Ἐβιωναῖοι or “Ebionites” although Justin Martyr appears to have referred to them in his Dialog. It was Tertullian who invented a fictional “arch-heretic he named “bishop Ebion.”

Epiphanius writes that the Ebionites were the heirs of the Nazarenes (Panarion 30.13.7). “Nazarenes” did not mean Nazareth.

.. Isaiah 11:1 says:

wa'yatsah choter mygeza yeeshay weNETSER meeshereshyaw yeeparah

“And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stump of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots.”

The targum on Isaiah 11:1-10 w'ypwk mlk) mbnwhy dy$y w'm$yx) mbny bnwhy ytrby "There shall come forth a king from the sons of Jesse, and a messiah shall grow from the sons of his sons.

"Branch" is NETSER with a tsade, and the followers of Y'shua were called <Aram>NETSERAYA or "BRANCHERS" which Matthew translated to Greek as Nazoraios (Nazarenes) a zeta being used because there is no tsade in Greek.

The proof of this, IMO, is the close juxtaposition of YEESHAY "Jesse" with NETSER in Isaiah and that Epiphanius (Panarion 29 1, 3-9; 4, 9) reports that the followers of Y'shua were also called IESSAIOI or "Jesseans."

I have gone the long way around to say that, IMO, the term NAZARENES does NOT refer to Nazareth. It refers to the BRANCH (Messiah) that will grow from the roots of Jesse. Jesus was the "branch" whom the "Branchers" Netseraya/ Ὅτι Ναζωραῖος κληθήσεται followed.

The Matthean author plowed through Isaiah looking for anything he could find that he believed predicted Jesus and he found 11:1 and that is why he writes at 2: 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

...a pun. The Matthean author was in error but anything to prove a prophecy..

This "root" and "branch" formula is used in both Psalms and Isaiah and the targums.

This traces the line from Yeshua to the Nazarenes to the “Ebionites.. The family and followers claimed that Yeshua was an ordinary man born in the usual manner as Justin Martyr and Origen write and Epiphanius reports that there were TWO sects of Ebionites, those who denied the virgin birth and those that accepted the Gentile viewpoint. I can see how the “pure” Yeshua community in the early 2nd century would be contaminated with the virginal conception. After all they were Romans and the conferred the same type of birth to Augustus."

That's..... something. An interesting interpretation I guess.

[arkansasbob]

Arkansasbob, an internet friend wrote this in response to my question about the virginal birth of Jesus (Yeshua).

"The “early Christians” who were Trinitarians (hence the virginal conception) were in the last decade of the 1st century. Christians were Gentiles. The Netseraya (Nazarenes) and Ebyona were the early Jewish family and followers.

For the first few years Yeshua’s Malkutha d’alaha (Kingdom of God) movement was called various things by both Jews and Gentiles. One designation by the Jews was also shared by the Essenes (4Q415) hinting at a relationship and that was EVyon ‎ אֶבְי֖וֹן

Meaning “poor ones” or “the needy” Evyonym. אֶבְיוֹנִ֣ים ֹ At the end of the 2nd century (180 CE) Irenaeus was the first mention of Ἐβιωναῖοι or “Ebionites” although Justin Martyr appears to have referred to them in his Dialog. It was Tertullian who invented a fictional “arch-heretic he named “bishop Ebion.”

Epiphanius writes that the Ebionites were the heirs of the Nazarenes (Panarion 30.13.7). “Nazarenes” did not mean Nazareth.

.. Isaiah 11:1 says:

wa'yatsah choter mygeza yeeshay weNETSER meeshereshyaw yeeparah

“And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stump of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots.”

The targum on Isaiah 11:1-10 w'ypwk mlk) mbnwhy dy$y w'm$yx) mbny bnwhy ytrby "There shall come forth a king from the sons of Jesse, and a messiah shall grow from the sons of his sons.

"Branch" is NETSER with a tsade, and the followers of Y'shua were called <Aram>NETSERAYA or "BRANCHERS" which Matthew translated to Greek as Nazoraios (Nazarenes) a zeta being used because there is no tsade in Greek.

The proof of this, IMO, is the close juxtaposition of YEESHAY "Jesse" with NETSER in Isaiah and that Epiphanius (Panarion 29 1, 3-9; 4, 9) reports that the followers of Y'shua were also called IESSAIOI or "Jesseans."

I have gone the long way around to say that, IMO, the term NAZARENES does NOT refer to Nazareth. It refers to the BRANCH (Messiah) that will grow from the roots of Jesse. Jesus was the "branch" whom the "Branchers" Netseraya/ Ὅτι Ναζωραῖος κληθήσεται followed.

The Matthean author plowed through Isaiah looking for anything he could find that he believed predicted Jesus and he found 11:1 and that is why he writes at 2: 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

...a pun. The Matthean author was in error but anything to prove a prophecy..

This "root" and "branch" formula is used in both Psalms and Isaiah and the targums.

This traces the line from Yeshua to the Nazarenes to the “Ebionites.. The family and followers claimed that Yeshua was an ordinary man born in the usual manner as Justin Martyr and Origen write and Epiphanius reports that there were TWO sects of Ebionites, those who denied the virgin birth and those that accepted the Gentile viewpoint. I can see how the “pure” Yeshua community in the early 2nd century would be contaminated with the virginal conception. After all they were Romans and the conferred the same type of birth to Augustus."

sounds like a lot of research went into that, but i don't think it proves what you think it proves (or really anything, for that matter).