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Thread: Socialism

  1. #31
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post

    Obviously we have already seen a significant growth in automation in farming and manufacturing. The classic story of needing fewer machinist jobs because with CNC machining, one “machinist” can with the assistance of software and robots do the job of more than 10 at lower cost and more profit is playing out gradually in every industry and with all jobs. Great news for the capitalist that owns the means of production, but not so great for the “hard worker” that relies solely on his labor.
    Not sure what your "data" shows, but in the real world of agriculture automation changed the labor situation back in the 80s and 90s. That labor force has been stagnant for years other than some new jobs brought about by the demand for organic and the like.

    It was never about machinist jobs, it was about moving those type jobs to cheap labor in other countries instead of using US automation and non-union labor. NAFTA was a HORRIBLE deal and you know it.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  2. #32
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Not sure what your "data" shows, but in the real world of agriculture automation changed the labor situation back in the 80s and 90s. That labor force has been stagnant for years other than some new jobs brought about by the demand for organic and the like.

    It was never about machinist jobs, it was about moving those type jobs to cheap labor in other countries instead of using US automation and non-union labor. NAFTA was a HORRIBLE deal and you know it.
    Where the jobs are is not important to a capitalist. Arbitrage is one of the great enablers of capitalist efficiency.

    You sound like a socialist.

  3. #33
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Where the jobs are is not important to a capitalist. Arbitrage is one of the great enablers of capitalist efficiency.

    You sound like a socialist.
    Nah, you know what was happening and it was corruption not capitalism.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  4. #34
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Nah, you know what was happening and it was corruption not capitalism.
    Because I don’t really know how exposed you (or others) are to “digital transformation”, I will post this very generic but basic description of what is going on:

    https://www.cio.com/article/3332203/...you-think.html


    Again, this is really nothing more than a reapplication of the automation principles that started with the invention of the steam engine (if not earlier). There is a reason that the owner of the means of production are disproportionately benefitting for the profits of productivity growth while the gains in wages are very very flat for the last 30 years or so.

  5. #35
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    ...while the gains in wages are very very flat for the last 30 years or so.


    ...says the guy who has never owned or ran a small business.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  6. #36
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post


    ...says the guy who has never owned or ran a small business.
    Inflation adjusted? If not, 5 basis points over 11 years (the slope of your graph is not remotely close to keeping up with inflation). But even if those are inflation adjusted dollars that is still very flat compared to the gains in productivity.

  7. #37
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Inflation adjusted? If not, 5 basis points over 11 years (the slope of your graph is not remotely close to keeping up with inflation). But even if those are inflation adjusted dollars that is still very flat compared to the gains in productivity.
    Of course. Only a liberal would call a 45 degree slant a flat line.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  8. #38
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Of course. Only a liberal would call a 45 degree slant a flat line.
    Wow. I hope you are joking.

    1. The degree slant is entirely a function of the aspect ratio of the values between the x and y axis. You could make those same values look near perfectly horizontal by decreasing the vertical distance between the y axis values or near perfectly vertical by greatly expanding the space between them.

    2. Those are nominal wages not real wages. Real wages, which take into account inflation, are flat (see the overlay of real wages vs your reported nominal wages):

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...2d7dbe0e977f21

    3. Even though real wages are not going up, productivity has gone up consistently. See below:

    https://i.stack.imgur.com/iCTuo.jpg

    There is only one conclusion that can be drawn - the value of the gains of productivity since 1974ish have accrued almost exclusively to the owner (the capitalist) and not the worker. I am not saying there is necessarily anything wrong with that. It just means that hard work is worth less than capital. Increased automation, which is now even impacting intellectual tasks, is only going to reinforce this trend.

  9. #39
    Champ TYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond reputeTYLERTECHSAS has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Socialism

    Guisslapp, there is no defense or excuses for the failed and lethal policies of the socialist left and socialism.

  10. #40
    Champ DONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Socialism

    socialism =communism

  11. #41
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by FriscoDog View Post
    So how do lawyers factor into your new world order?
    Nowhere.

  12. #42
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    Re: Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS View Post
    Guisslapp, there is no defense or excuses for the failed and lethal policies of the socialist left and socialism.
    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    socialism =communism
    True as socialism always leads to communism in some form or directly.

  13. #43
    Champ techman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Socialism

    My brother, a millennial, progressive, inexperienced, highly educated person, has been arguing for more extreme socialist programs and policies. Yesterday, he and his wife were complaining about Vanderbilt Medical Center. He was saying how stupid it is that people have to wait in the hallway on a gurney for rooms to open up, wait times for appointments and procedures are insane, and the only people that go there are uninsured. Of course they don’t go there because he has employer provided coverage that cost him about $3/day. If we weren’t at a family gathering I would have screamed at him for arguing against the very thing he thinks he stands for.

  14. #44
    Champ DONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Socialism

    Most people think medicare is free and I'm sure that's what these democrats think that are running for president. Medicare part A pays your expenses for staying in the hospital and it has a $500 deductible. Medicare part B pays for doctor visits with a $10-$20 deductible. It cost me $111/mo. and the same for my wife. My wife and I both have United Healthcare supplemental which cost us both $230/mo. It helps pay some on prescriptions but doesn't pay for all of the cost. I'm diabetic and my insulin cost $50/mo for the first 6 months and then I go into what they call a donut hole where I pay 43% of the cost which comes to $246/mo that I pay for the rest of the year. So, my wife and I pay $452/mo for health insurance and that does not cover all of the prescription cost. I had to change doctor's 2 years ago because the clinic my doctor worked at quit taking my insurance.

  15. #45
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism

    You and your wife need to pay more...so you can help cover all these illegals invading our country. Illegals are entitled to FREE healthcare. Champ has already taken out another mortgage and he's donating every dime to the cause, er, right Champ. I mean you are putting your money where your mouth is...good Samaritan. You might have heard of it.

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