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Thread: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

  1. #31
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    And a single battalion of 40 Israeli tanks could annihilate 1,500 Syrian tanks in less than a week. The Syrians launched a surprise attack. Caught most of the Israeli tank crews on leave! Should have been a walk-over. Instead, with God's guidance and strength....and 40 US built Abrams tanks...the Israelis never doubted they would prevail. During the second night of the war, 6 Israeli tanks were dispatched to support a rifle company holding a bridge. They heard the reports...400 Syrian tanks supported by thousands of infantry...were closing in on that bridge. During the night, under the cover of darkness, those 6 tanks put "pedal to the metal" and raced across the desert to beat that huge Syrian force to the bridge. The commander of those 6 tanks said they trusted that God would deliver victory. The Syrians never set foot on that bridge, they were stopped cold.

    Now, that is having supreme confidence that righteous is on your side.


    As an aside, during the Syrian retreat from the bridge, the rest of that Israeli tank battalion showed up....It was a turkey shoot. Ouch!

  2. #32
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by T1 View Post
    I think love, forgiveness, and justice could have been bad concepts if evolution had performed a different reaction on our brains. We could live in a world where hate, being judgemental, and injustice were the concepts best suited for survival (if that's what matters to evolution). There is nothing guiding this. It is just random reactions and gene mutations and adaptation and nature selecting the survivalists. Our brains can't be trusted to know truth because truth does not exist in that world. If nothing is true, then nothing is right or wrong... we've been duped into believing that by how our brain evolved over billions of years. Time is not precious (nothing is.... nothing matters). We are not fortunate (that's a delusion). We should all have our own subjective enriching experiences even if that is killing babies for fun because nothing is objectively wrong. But that doesn't seem like the world I live in at all. But I could be deluded. But I think I would still be better off not knowing I was deluded.
    I think you are over-reacting to the fact that your brain impacts the way you feel about the world.

    There are certainly tribes that have survived and thrived being murderous and uncivilized by modern standards.

    Precious and what matters is defined by each of us subjectively. For me, knowing that there is infinite non-experience surrounding the brief period I live motivates me to exploit the time I have. There will be plenty of time for subjective nothingness when I die, just as there was for the near eternity before I was born.

  3. #33
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    One more point - our fondness for the memes that dominate our culture, particularly our Western values reflect a survivorship bias resulting from such a symbiosis of the values and aspects of our nature. If we were wired differently or our culture had mimicked other memes, we might be equally drawn to and have a preference for them.

  4. #34
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I have read it. Have you?

    Because I don’t see how anyone could read the Bible and not conclude the following:

    1. This is a time capsule of how humans without the benefit of scientific learning and enlightenment tried to make sense of the world and establish a moral code.

    2. More importantly, the god of the Bible is an evil, petty, jealous, spiteful, capricious god. He commits murders, plagues, mass enslavements and chooses who to spare and save. He was kind of like Hitler.

    3. None of it is believable. But if you were to believe it, I can’t see why you wouldn’t be just as likely to conclude that hell separated from such a terrible god wouldn’t be better. And perhaps, if there is a real god, the Bible is just a test: will you follow an evil powerful god on the promise of salvation or will you use your experiences in life to understand how people SHOULD be treated and then recognize that this god is evil. In this scenario, your salvation could actually be tied to rejecting the poisoned fruit offered by a lower god.
    I have indeed read the Bible. One must rely of faith, Guisslapp. Believe it or not, you don't know everything.

    It's a shame you're so calloused and angry when it comes to spirituality. I hope someone will one day be able to help you with that. I'm sorry that somehow your heart has been so hardened in this life.

  5. #35
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by brtransplant View Post
    I have indeed read the Bible. One must rely of faith, Guisslapp. Believe it or not, you don't know everything.

    It's a shame you're so calloused and angry when it comes to spirituality. I hope someone will one day be able to help you with that. I'm sorry that somehow your heart has been so hardened in this life.
    Faith in what? Faith that the god of the Bible is better than what it portrays?

    You could put faith into anything. Why this?

  6. #36
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Faith in what? Faith that the god of the Bible is better than what it portrays?

    You could put faith into anything. Why this?
    You are not even paying attention are you? We put our faith in the God of the Bible because we believe the universe was created for a purpose (as opposed to your faith that it just popped into existence for no reason), life was created for a reason (as opposed to your faith that life came from non-life randomly for no reason), and human consciousness is real and meaningful (as opposed to your faith that we are all deluded by memes from our ancestors). To deny God is to put your faith in a subjective delusion. Not sure you realize this yet?

  7. #37
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by T1 View Post
    You are not even paying attention are you? We put our faith in the God of the Bible because we believe the universe was created for a purpose (as opposed to your faith that it just popped into existence for no reason), life was created for a reason (as opposed to your faith that life came from non-life randomly for no reason), and human consciousness is real and meaningful (as opposed to your faith that we are all deluded by memes from our ancestors). To deny God is to put your faith in a subjective delusion. Not sure you realize this yet?
    Putting your faith in the god of the Bible is just putting your faith in the subjective delusions of others.

    Besides, there are many other religions and non religious belief systems you could easily put faith in if “meaning” is your quest.

    Again, the belief that life must have been created for a purpose/reason is a great example of the logical fallacy of survivorship bias. If human life didn’t develop on earth, humans wouldn’t be questioning the reason and purpose of the nonhuman life.

  8. #38
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    the belief that life must have been created for a purpose/reason is a great example of the logical fallacy of survivorship bias.
    Do you have faith that it's logical that life can come from non-life without being created?

  9. #39
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by T1 View Post
    Do you have faith that it's logical that life can come from non-life without being created?
    It isn’t a matter of logic, it is a matter of fact. Why couldn’t life come from nonlife?

    After all, life is composed of matter. Infinite combinations of matter don’t yield life, but it only takes one combination that does work, since we know that simple forms of life can evolve into more complex forms of life.

    That is really all that is unique about “life” - it is the rare combination of matter that has the emergent property of evolution. Across a universe of matter and time, something like that is bound to happen once (if not more) and then survivorship bias in human logic causes you to not consider the infinite variants that did not pan out to support evolved human life. You can only exist to question the logic on the rare planet that actually supported the conditions for the evolution of life in the first place.

  10. #40
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    It isn’t a matter of logic, it is a matter of fact. Why couldn’t life come from nonlife?

    After all, life is composed of matter. Infinite combinations of matter don’t yield life, but it only takes one combination that does work, since we know that simple forms of life can evolve into more complex forms of life.

    That is really all that is unique about “life” - it is the rare combination of matter that has the emergent property of evolution. Across a universe of matter and time, something like that is bound to happen once (if not more) and then survivorship bias in human logic causes you to not consider the infinite variants that did not pan out to support evolved human life. You can only exist to question the logic on the rare planet that actually supported the conditions for the evolution of life in the first place.
    Cells have too much information in them to have happened randomly. DNA is pretty much Information Technology (like computer software). It instructs organisms how to build themselves. No one has been able to determine how complex information in the first cell could develop without a mind providing it.

  11. #41
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by T1 View Post
    Cells have too much information in them to have happened randomly. DNA is pretty much Information Technology (like computer software). It instructs organisms how to build themselves. No one has been able to determine how complex information in the first cell could develop without a mind providing it.
    Too much information?

    The information that cells have today wasn’t random. The information that started the first “life” that led to that first cell probably was. That is how evolution works. The non-viable combinations got sorted out through the evolutionary process. Those that didn’t work weren’t viable and therefore didn’t proliferate.

    Information spreads virally, literally in this case.

  12. #42
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Too much information?

    The information that cells have today wasn’t random. The information that started the first “life” that led to that first cell probably was. That is how evolution works. The non-viable combinations got sorted out through the evolutionary process. Those that didn’t work weren’t viable and therefore didn’t proliferate.

    Information spreads virally, literally in this case.
    Cells have always had the information they have today. Cells started the first life, not vice versa. No one knows how the first cell happened. No one can duplicate the construction of a single cell today.

    Do you really believe information lead to the first life though? If so, where does information come from?

  13. #43
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by T1 View Post

    Do you really believe information lead to the first life though? If so, where does information come from?
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  14. #44
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Darwin had no freaking clue what DNA is. He thought the first cell was "goo" that could be influenced by the environment.

  15. #45
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    Re: Interesting Graph on Nobel Prize Winners

    Quote Originally Posted by T1 View Post
    Cells have always had the information they have today. Cells started the first life, not vice versa. No one knows how the first cell happened. No one can duplicate the construction of a single cell today.

    Do you really believe information lead to the first life though? If so, where does information come from?
    At what level of complexity do you start calling something “life”? Is a virus “life”? Because it contains “information.”

    Information is only information to someone that can interpret it. To anything else it is just a physical thing - whether it is a pattern of electrons or a chemical reaction of varying levels of complexity.

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