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Thread: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

  1. #46
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Let's get something straight before we get too bogged down in the minute details of "who's the blame?"

    The Turks, Erdogan, harbor longtime hatred for the ethnic group, the Kurds. They also fear a Kurdish homeland as 20% of present day Turkey has some, to a lot, of blood ties to the Kurds. Their historic homeland, Kurdistan, includes large tracts of land in present day Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, as well as some in Jordan. Turkey fears a poplar uprising of Kurds in their country and even a movement toward re-establishing Kurdistan, even in part, is enough to make the Turks very nervous. This 20-mile wide zone is designed to cutoff contact between the Kurds in Turkey and those in Syria.

    Given the history of the cultural conflict between the Turks and the Kurds, everyone knew it was just a matter of time before the Turks struck the Kurds militarily. If it hadn't happened this week, it would have next month, next year, or whenever... it has never been a matter of "if" but of "when?"

    The more I research this...just read a lengthy article...the more I am convinced the US (Trump) had two choices. 1) keep US troops between the Kurds and the Turks until Kingdom come, or 2) withdraw and allow to happen what is happening. No way were the Kurds ever going to give up northern Syria without a fight. Aleppo was founded by the Kurds many centuries ago. They claim it as part of ancient Kurdistan, and there is historical records to support that claim.

    I wish we had managed this better. That is my biggest gripe. But, again, I'm not sure what could have been done...short of more warning to the Kurds, "We are leaving, and the Turks are invading. Now, do you wish US troops to escort you safely 20 miles south?" I'm not sure what we could have done.

  2. #47
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Let's get something straight before we get too bogged down in the minute details of "who's the blame?" The Turks, Erdogan, harbor longtime hatred for the ethnic group, the Kurds. They also fear a Kurdish homeland as 20% of present day Turkey has some, to a lot, of blood ties to the Kurds. Their historic homeland, Kurdistan, includes large tracts of land in present day Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, as well as some in Jordan. Turkey fears a poplar uprising of Kurds in their country and even a movement toward re-establishing Kurdistan, even in part, is enough to make the Turks very nervous. This 20-mile wide zone is designed to cutoff contact between the Kurds in Turkey and those in Syria.Given the history of the cultural conflict between the Turks and the Kurds, everyone knew it was just a matter of time before the Turks struck the Kurds militarily. If it hadn't happened this week, it would have next month, next year, or whenever... it has never been a matter of "if" but of "when?" The more I research this...just read a lengthy article...the more I am convinced the US (Trump) had two choices. 1) keep US troops between the Kurds and the Turks until Kingdom come, or 2) withdraw and allow to happen what is happening. No way were the Kurds ever going to give up northern Syria without a fight. Aleppo was founded by the Kurds many centuries ago. They claim it as part of ancient Kurdistan, and there is historical records to support that claim. I wish we had managed this better. That is my biggest gripe. But, again, I'm not sure what could have been done...short of more warning to the Kurds, "We are leaving, and the Turks are invading. Now, do you wish US troops to escort you safely 20 miles south?" I'm not sure what we could have done.
    Thanks. That is what I was unable to figure out. I had/have no idea what our options are/were. Aren't there multiple factions of Kurds as well? Do the Turks hate all factions of Kurds (assuming there are more than one)?

  3. #48
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow View Post
    What after the fact BS?
    The line that the Turks were attacking whether we withdrew or not. The administration floated that junk long after the damage had been done and the President has already given his reason for the pull back.

  4. #49
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    The line that the Turks were attacking whether we withdrew or not. The administration floated that junk long after the damage had been done and the President has already given his reason for the pull back.
    Thanks.

  5. #50
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    For additional clarity...

    The Turks (Erdogan) did NOT want to accidently wound/kill American soldiers in northern Syria. We had about 100 guys on the ground, spread out over a fairly large area. They were observers, mostly in concrete bunkers, but also moving around in armored vehicles. If the Turks launched a full-blown invasion, as they have done, they could not know for sure where our guys were. It was that fear that had deterred the Turks.

    When Trump announced we were withdrawing our remaining 100 guys, for some reason the Turks took that to mean "right now," and assumed they were all gone, away from the border. Of course nothing happens that fast. We still have some observers on the ground in the "danger zone" where combat is occurring. A couple of days ago the Turks halted military operations long enough to allow a few of our guys to evacuate their equipment from a bunker and clear the area. Obviously trying to win the international PR battle, the Turks released one of their news networks coverage of it.

    No matter what the libs say, the Turks were coming across that border to slaughter the Kurds in northern Syria. Period. As I posted, it might have been next month, next year...but they were coming. It's also true that the presence of American troops on the ground served as a deterrent to that invasion. Given that, we should have left troops there. Yeah, there was always some risk involved. Our guys would be in a very volatile area of the world, a real powder keg with a lit match. But, in comparison to other costs/risks it seemed like a fairly sensible deployment. And besides...we owed it to the Kurds to stay.

    Two things have been proven: 1) for those who said the Turks would not risk international condemnation/sanctions by invading Syria, well WRONG! and 2) for those who said our presence was not a deterrent, well, WRONG!

    For me, and many others, it's the betrayal of the Kurds that hurts the most. Some things are just right, and doing the right thing stands on its own merits. I can tell you "my sources" who KNOW are just absolutely disgusted and heartbroken. I'm talking about people who served right along side the Kurds, on the ground, in combat in Iraq and Syria fighting the evil ISIS scumbags. My nephew, who is now stationed in Germany, served in Iraq. He has told me about numerous times the Kurds were heroic, and a few times dashed in to rescue American troops in a tough spot in a battle. Of course, as he says, he can't reveal too many details due to classified information concerns, so he speaks in generalities. But, the point is made. And once, he told me in confidence, the Kurds helped him out of a tough spot. Not even his wife knows about that... Point is, the Kurds have proven themselves to be valuable allies. We should do better by them.

  6. #51
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq



    Pence, Pompeo announce Turkey-Syria cease-fire after tense talks with 'tough guy' Erdogan


    Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced Thursday that they have reached a cease-fire agreement between Turkey and Kurds, following a meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara.
    The agreement comes hours after a letter emerged in which President Trump warned Erdogan against being a "fool" and "tough guy" regarding an operation in northeastern Syria.
    This is a developing story. Check back for updates.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pence-pompeo-secure-cease-fire-agreement-in-syria-after-meeting-with-turkish-president


    Gen. Jack Keane says the threat of US sanctions on Turkey led to ceasefire in Syria



    Radical muslim killing muslims again
    Kurds accuse Turkey of using napalm, white phosphorus...

  7. #52
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Fingers crossed...

  8. #53
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    If we can broker a cease-fire (which we should), it just goes to show how stupid the initial withdrawal was. We green-lot slaughter because of impetuousness and stupidity.

  9. #54
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Green-lit....mobile version still doesnít have an edit feature.

  10. #55
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    If we can broker a cease-fire (which we should), it just goes to show how stupid the initial withdrawal was. We green-lot slaughter because of impetuousness and stupidity.
    The military expert has been watching CNN again.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  11. #56
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    If we can broker a cease-fire (which we should), it just goes to show how stupid the initial withdrawal was. We green-lot slaughter because of impetuousness and stupidity.
    I guess we should have put sanctions on Turkey (a supposed ally and NATO member) before we left and used those as leverage to make sure they did not invade in the first place?

    You may have a point in this argument, but your Trump hate is obscuring it.

  12. #57
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    The military expert has been watching CNN again.
    Common sense. Iím at the beach!

  13. #58
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Turks have already violated the cease fire. Artillery shells raining down on Kurdish positions right now.

  14. #59
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    As for me, I am pleased we are getting out of there. Ever since Obama pulled us out of Iraq I am all for bringing all of our troops in harm's way home. You just can't run long term undeclared wars forever, and the longer you stay the more you lose when you eventually leave.

    We need to strengthen our borders, keep track of those coming here from overseas, and throw illegal immigrants out of the country and make them come in properly. Keep the door open, but make them at least friggin KNOCK before they walk in. So NO, we don't have to fight them here if we don't fight them there. And if we do have to fight them there, we invade, destroy them, then leave them to live in the shambles we created.

    That includes pulling troops from Germany, too. Make them defend themselves. Perhaps the EU can create their own military and start protecting their citizens. Maybe Germany would think twice before sending their money to Russia (whose entire GDP is only about three times the amount of our military budget) for energy when we aren't there to keep the wolves at bay.

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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Erdogan’s Ambitions Go Beyond Syria. He Says He Wants Nuclear Weapons.


    A month before invading Kurdish areas in Syria, Turkey’s president said he “cannot accept” the West’s restrictions that keep him from a bomb.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/w...ss&partner=rss

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