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Thread: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

  1. #31
    Champ DONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    False choice. Take that garbage to Laura Ingram. It doesn’t work on me.

    That's a serious question. Why are you not answering it?

  2. #32
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    That's a serious question. Why are you not answering it?
    No, it’s a fallacious question. Would you send your son to die for Saudi’s? Our troops are not coming home.

  3. #33
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    That was a pretty stupid thing to say. I wish he could control his urge to say dumb things.


    OK, so Trump isn't the only one who can't control his urge to say stupid stuff.
    You didn’t know that Trump’s decision to withdraw troops came after a phone call with Turkey’s despotic president?

  4. #34
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Apparently Mattis is also a fan boi troop member?

    "Under some circumstances, it may be, and Syria as well. I think it's appropriate. I don't join those who say, 'Oh, it's crazy to be pulling our troops out of Syria,' or pulling half our troops out of Afghanistan. I think we need a thoughtful examination of that. But again, the essence is, what is the strategic objective? What do we want to accomplish? What do we think we can accomplish by this? Not just the same old, 'Well just hang in there, let's just hang in there,' and we go through another 10 years or 18 years or whatever it is, for what?"
    Nah, I think he agrees with me.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  5. #35
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    No, it’s a fallacious question. Would you send your son to die for Saudi’s? Our troops are not coming home.
    We still have troops in that area attacked by Turkey.

  6. #36
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Just to set the record straight, that "Normandy" reference was made by a military/foreign relations expert who wrote an article explaining the withdrawal of those last 50, 100, or 150 soldiers (I've seen all three figures used in the pas 24 hrs.). His point is the Kurds have never allied with us in any other situation, in any other place in the world, and that the Kurds, in this instance, were just fighting over some ancient claims to land in northern Syria. Trump quoted/referenced that article. To anyone with an ounce of common sense, and that eliminates leftists, including those here, it was a kind-of ridiculous reference to illustrate a point. It was never meant to be taken as a serious reference, but only that, as allies, we've never seen the Kurds, in contrast to Canada, Australia, Great Britain, and many others who actually have sent their troops all over the world to support us. That is a valid point.

    BUT!!! in this case I, and many others, think the Kurds deserved added consideration given what they have done, in contrast to what they haven't done. In the past 4 years, cleaning up obummer's mess, over 11,000 Kurds have been killed in this war and another 27,000 wounded. I've already made the point how the Kurds have done the tough missions, so our soldiers wouldn't have to. In my opinion, they have done enough to earn the absolute best we can offer them. Certainly, enough to be given some real notification we were actually serious about pulling out of northern Syria.

    NO! I do not think we should be the world's police, nor do I think we should leave our troops in harm's way all over the planet. But, we still have troops in Germany and Japan...dating back to WWII. We have troops in Korea, very much in harm's way. Funny...I didn't see South Korean troops storming the beaches of Normandy either...to borrow that reference.

    The Kurds have been awesome. That is the truth. Whatever else might be their motives, they have stood by us, shoulder to shoulder, in this war, and want to be our loyal ally going forward. Perhaps Trump and his advisors underestimated how quickly the Turks would invade and were surprised. Obviously the weak-ass response of "sanctions" did not deter the Turks. Each passing day only makes this situation worse. Even if the Turks keep their promise and stop after capturing the strip of land 20 miles deep into Syria, the fox has been in the henhouse. And...who really thinks the Turks will stop?

  7. #37
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    We still have troops in that area attacked by Turkey.
    That is true. One of our observation bunkers was nearly hit by Turkish artillery. The Turks apologized for getting that close saying their target was nearby "terrorists." We still have US troops on the ground in the area.

    And! said US troops are observing the Turks slaughtering our allies, the Kurds.

  8. #38
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq


    "All roads lead to Putin" -- Thomas Jefferson



  9. #39
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS View Post
    I do not like Trump's move on this one even though Obama/Biden/Hillary, along with their radical Islamist buddies put us in the terrible place.
    Again it's very Biblical as far as "end days prophecy" but that doesn't mean I have to like the decision by an American President.

    Trump's Syria withdrawal announcement draws GOP condemnation...
    TURKEY MOVES IN...


    Not good, as I stated on October 7th above. Not that I every really believe MSN or NYT but Erdogan doesn't think rational........


    ERDOGAN HOLDING 50 US NUKES 'HOSTAGE'

    "And over the weekend, State and Energy Department officials were quietly reviewing plans for evacuating roughly 50 tactical nuclear weapons that the United States had long stored, under American control, at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, about 250 miles from the Syrian border, according to two American officials.
    Those weapons, one senior official said, were now essentially Erdogan’s hostages. To fly them out of Incirlik would be to mark the de facto end of the Turkish-American alliance. To keep them there, though, is to perpetuate a nuclear vulnerability that should have been eliminated years ago.
    “I think this is a first — a country with U.S. nuclear weapons stationed in it literally firing artillery at US forces,” Jeffrey Lewis of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies wrote last week.
    For his part, Mr. Erdogan claims nuclear ambitions of his own: Only a month ago, speaking to supporters, he said, he said he “cannot accept” rules that keep Turkey from possessing nuclear weapons of its own.
    “There is no developed nation in the world that doesn’t have them,” he said. (In fact, most do not.)
    “This president keeps blindsiding our military and diplomatic leaders and partners with impulsive moves like this that benefit Russia and authoritarian regimes,” said Senator Jack Reed, the Rhode Island Democrat and longtime member of the Armed Services Committee.
    “If this president were serious about ending wars and winning peace, he’d actually articulate a strategy that would protect against a re-emergence of ISIS and provide for the safety of our Syrian partners,” Mr. Reed added. “But he has repeatedly failed to do that. Instead, this is another example of Donald Trump creating chaos, undermining U.S. interests, and benefitting Russia and the Assad regime.”

    The other major beneficiary is Iran, perhaps Mr. Trump’s most talked-about geo-political foe, which has long supported the Syrian regime and sought freer rein across the country.

    MORE

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ast/ar-AAILbg6

  10. #40
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    My "sources" tell me it appears Trump's announcement of withdrawing our troops from northern Syria is what triggered Erdogan's invasion. There is no other explanation.

    This time last year we had about 1,200 soldiers in northern Syria. Then as the last of the organized ISIS resistance was eliminated we withdrew about 1,000 of our guys. We've not had more than 200 soldiers in that area for a year. We were down to about 100 troops, observers and advisors. They were all still there when Turkey launched their attacks. Saw a Turkish TV Network report, their national TV, a reporter standing with a bunker in the distance. The cameras zoom in and it shows a truck backed up to a concrete bunker. That was the US evacuating the position. After the truck leaves a Turkish army officer returns in an armored car and announces "the Americans are gone...resume the attack." Then artillery blasts start occurring all around that town, and that bunker. The Turkish TV reporter says "we are being careful not to injure our American allies." (of course the video had English dubbed in).

    The Turks actually thought our guys were gone the instant Trump made the announcement. But, clearly, they have not ceased operations...except for such brief pauses...even after they learned we were still there. But the Turks also have known we were down to about 100 troops on the ground for a year. So, what has changed? Simple...it is not about our 100 guys on the ground, Trump's move is seen as a policy change: we are abandoning northern Syria, which Erdogan took as an open invitation to invade.

    Erdogan has been "chomping at the bit" (horseracing expression, means: anxious to go!) for several years now. Two years ago many observers thought he was going to invade when he moved two divisions to the border. But, he hesitated, then stood down. Even IF he heeds his own words and stops 20 miles in, the damage has been done. Now, a new reality exists. Putin is actively courting the Kurds to ally with him. They don't want to. The Kurds would prefer to remain our allies. But the situation could become even more complex if Russian jets start defending the Kurds against NATO's Turkey... I doubt if Putin will push it that far. He's mostly a big mouth. But he does play the political game pretty well.

  11. #41
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    My "sources" tell me it appears Trump's announcement of withdrawing our troops from northern Syria is what triggered Erdogan's invasion. There is no other explanation.

    This time last year we had about 1,200 soldiers in northern Syria. Then as the last of the organized ISIS resistance was eliminated we withdrew about 1,000 of our guys. We've not had more than 200 soldiers in that area for a year. We were down to about 100 troops, observers and advisors. They were all still there when Turkey launched their attacks. Saw a Turkish TV Network report, their national TV, a reporter standing with a bunker in the distance. The cameras zoom in and it shows a truck backed up to a concrete bunker. That was the US evacuating the position. After the truck leaves a Turkish army officer returns in an armored car and announces "the Americans are gone...resume the attack." Then artillery blasts start occurring all around that town, and that bunker. The Turkish TV reporter says "we are being careful not to injure our American allies." (of course the video had English dubbed in).

    The Turks actually thought our guys were gone the instant Trump made the announcement. But, clearly, they have not ceased operations...except for such brief pauses...even after they learned we were still there. But the Turks also have known we were down to about 100 troops on the ground for a year. So, what has changed? Simple...it is not about our 100 guys on the ground, Trump's move is seen as a policy change: we are abandoning northern Syria, which Erdogan took as an open invitation to invade.

    Erdogan has been "chomping at the bit" (horseracing expression, means: anxious to go!) for several years now. Two years ago many observers thought he was going to invade when he moved two divisions to the border. But, he hesitated, then stood down. Even IF he heeds his own words and stops 20 miles in, the damage has been done. Now, a new reality exists. Putin is actively courting the Kurds to ally with him. They don't want to. The Kurds would prefer to remain our allies. But the situation could become even more complex if Russian jets start defending the Kurds against NATO's Turkey... I doubt if Putin will push it that far. He's mostly a big mouth. But he does play the political game pretty well.
    Per the two comments made above:

    1) I heard on TV last night that Erdogan told Trump he was coming in period! So Trump elected to pull out. I have a hard time believing this but who knows. Obviously Trump wouldn't want US troops in the middle of a blitzkrieg type invasion as Turkish troops were already on the border. Hum....


    2) Russia has now moved in-between Turkey and the Kurds. Putin wants to maintain his Russian access to Lebanese warm water ports and of course a hold on Syria for Iranian benefit reasons. He doesn't trust Turkey and Erdogan and he and Trump shouldn't. Erdogan will bring Turkey in for his personal version of a caliphate pissing off Iran and Russia and endangering Israel as well. Putin is playing with fire as Erdogan is very,very shrewd!
    Remember that Turkey never closed it's borders allowing ISIS fighters into the area. Likewise Erdogan shot down a Russian jet if you recall and hasn't cooperated with NATO. And he has taken and sold Iranian oil although sanctioned.

    Many in the prophecy world see Erdogan as the little horn (Daniel chapter 7 & 8 & 11 and Revelation 13:2 ) growing to a big horn and the King of the North that will swoop down and take control of Syria and Iraq (along with Turkey obviously) described in Daniel 7:24. I leave these suppositions at this juncture because,
    who knows but Lord God!



    Russian warning pauses Turkish Syria operation. US pullback from E. Syria, too, opens door to Iran

    Moscow again warns Turkey to back off northeast Syria

    Oct 15, 2019 @ 15:55
    The Kremlin’s envoy for Syria Alexander Lavrentiev on Tuesday called Turkey’s military offensive in northeast Syria “unacceptable” and denied Ankara’s operation had been cleared by Moscow in advance, as President Recep Erdogan had claimed. This was the second Russian warning to Turkey a day after the Kremlin ruled that Turkey’s incursion was “not exactly” compatible with Syrian territorial integrity. DEBKAfile: Lavrentiev was the prime mover in the deal for Syrian forces to take over Kurdish areas and take part in their defense against the Turkish incursion.

    https://www.debka.com/mivzak/moscow-again-warns-turkey-to-back-off-northeast-syria/

    A little background on Erdogan

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/turkey/2019-08-12/erdogans-way


  12. #42
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    And don't forget the historical significance of this being Turkey. The Ottoman Turks were war-mongers invading Europe and northern Africa for centuries. In WWI the Turks aligned with the central powers, Germany and Austria-Hungary, and invaded Saudi Arabia...the subject of the classic movie "Lawrence of Arabia." The Turks have always harbored imperialistic ambitions, and 2019 is no different to them.

  13. #43
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    First let me state that I have no claim to extraordinary knowledge of Turkish ambition or Kurdish altruistic assistance to the United States in defeating ISIS.

    I keep hearing about the small number of troops we had in the region where the Turks are operating, and logic tells me those troops would be nothing more than sacrificial lambs should hostilities have started between the Turks and the Kurds. Apparently this was something the Turks had been planning for some time, and even condemnation by the rest of NATO, the economic sanctions and the contents of the letter sent by Trump had no impact on their decision. Had we been in the way and suffered casualties (at the hands of our supposed ally), the most that would have taken place is a strong statement of protest and condemnation....but our people would have been dead just the same. Heck, I bet we wouldn't have even imposed sanctions had that happened. We would have just come home with our tail between our legs.

    We would have fired no shots against the Kurds OR the Turks.

    I think our constitution was written to keep this kind of stuff from happening. That's why it's up to Congress to declare and wage war.

    So, if Congress is so upset about what Trump has done, all they have to do is declare war against (insert foe here) and send all the troops they can muster to the region. If we had a big military base in northern Iraq following our invasion (you know, like the ones we have in Japan and Germany after our invasions there), much of what is going on would not be happening now. I honestly thought that was the real unstated objective of that invasion.

  14. #44
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    No way in hell the Turks go through our troops (regardless of their number) to get to the Kurds.

    That’s why our removal of the first 100 was a green light.

    That’s just some after the fact BS they floated that was directly contradictory to what the President said initially.

  15. #45
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    Re: Trouble in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    No way in hell the Turks go through our troops (regardless of their number) to get to the Kurds.

    That’s why our removal of the first 100 was a green light.

    That’s just some after the fact BS they floated that was directly contradictory to what the President said initially.
    What after the fact BS?

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