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    Re: This Date in History

    On this day in history in 1863, Pickett made his fateful and unsuccessful charge against Union forces.

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    Re: This Date in History

    In honor of fourth of July... I'll leave this here.. Merica!!!!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHLlwiLebkc

  3. #18
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    Re: This Date in History

    August 6, 1945 a lone B-29 bomber appeared over Hiroshima, Japan. This is the 75th anniversary of that historic day.

    Best estimates, all these years later, is that 200,000 people died from that blast. About 70,000 were killed that day, from the blast and the immediate effects of it, such as fire and buildings collapsing. Another 130,000 died from radiation poisoning, most of those by November, 1945. But there were other deaths, 4 and 5 years later, and some even later, from cancer, especially leukemia, which experts connect to the bomb.

    "Little Boy" was its name and it was a uranium bomb. It worked perfectly as planned, detonating 1,845 feet above the ground for maximum blast radius effect.

    On August 9th, "Fat Man" was dropped on Nagasaki, Japan. It was a plutonium bomb, and much more powerful than "Little Boy." But, it killed fewer people and did less damage because it detonated close to 1,200 feet above the ground, instead of 1,900+ feet it was set for. The blast dug a deeper crater but the blast did not travel as far. Also, the number of deaths related to it was far less, maybe 90,000 total, although some sources say it was 75,000 total, because of the limited blast radius, but more importantly, Japanese officials quickly evacuated the area, more out of fear of collapsing buildings and such, but it had the added benefit of removing a large number of people away, before the worst of the fallout descended on the city. No one knew about the effects of radiation yet...not just 3 days later than the first bomb...but fearing other dangers officials saved countless lives.

  4. #19
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    Re: This Date in History

    Oh, and this interesting tidbit...a bit of irony. There was a doctor, who practiced in Hiroshima. He was a civilian doctor but under contract with the Japanese military to also work the army hospital located on the outskirts of the city. He happened to be at the army hospital when the bomb exploded. Because it was several miles out, and because it was a reinforced structure...fearing conventional bombing might someday hit Hiroshima...it survived mostly unscathed. This doctor rushed into the city to render as much medical help as he could, he was, after all, a doctor. Over the next few days he was exposed to the fallout. It saved his life.

    This fellow was eaten up with cancer and he knew he had, at best, a few years left. He was 42 at the time. The radiation killed his cancer. Later he worked closely with US doctors who administered and studied the radiation victims from the bombings. He would travel to the US and conducted lectures and he spent the rest of his days researching the effects...bad and good...of radiation. He lived to be 80.

  5. #20
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    Re: This Date in History

    I had the pleasure of meeting Col Paul Tibbets. He was the pilot of the Enola Gay. He signed my B-29 model on the wing..

  6. #21
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    Re: This Date in History

    Quote Originally Posted by FriscoDog View Post
    I had the pleasure of meeting Col Paul Tibbets. He was the pilot of the Enola Gay. He signed my B-29 model on the wing..
    Cool!

    Usually, on this date, the whole philosophical discussion on the ethics/morals of using the nukes comes up. As I recall Tibbets and the others never thought anything about it, other than the normal sympathy for those killed/suffering as a result of that attack. I agree. We know for a fact the use of the two bombs saved countless Japanese, and more importantly, American and other allies' lives. Probably the grand total from both sides would have easily surpassed 1 million, and probably more. My dad was stationed in the Solomon Islands and his unit was one of those slated to take part in the invasion of mainland Japan. In his case, not the initial landings, but in the second wave, was his understanding. Regardless, they all would have seen heavy fighting.

    As for the bombs themselves, well, between the two about 275,000 people died. That's terrible...war sucks. But, in the combined firing bombings of Dresden, Germany and Tokyo, Japan over 300,000 perished, and most of those, if this bothers you more, in more dreadful, painful ways. Most burned to death. At least in the two nuke attacks, many, many never knew what hit them...in an instant, gone!

    Is it more immoral to drop 1,000-pounders than 500-pounders in conventional bombings, because one is twice as powerful? The nuke is just another weapon, more powerful than other bombs, but still just a weapon. You don't use a sledgehammer to kill an ant, so such powerful weapons have to be used wisely, tactically/strategically.

    There are other "political" reasons Truman decided to use the nukes. One, was to keep the Ruskies out of Japan, and two, to show the Ruskies why they needed to back off their expansion plans into other regions of the world.

    And, most importantly, to save hundreds of thousands of American lives...

  7. #22
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    Re: This Date in History

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Cool!

    Usually, on this date, the whole philosophical discussion on the ethics/morals of using the nukes comes up. As I recall Tibbets and the others never thought anything about it, other than the normal sympathy for those killed/suffering as a result of that attack. I agree. We know for a fact the use of the two bombs saved countless Japanese, and more importantly, American and other allies' lives. Probably the grand total from both sides would have easily surpassed 1 million, and probably more. My dad was stationed in the Solomon Islands and his unit was one of those slated to take part in the invasion of mainland Japan. In his case, not the initial landings, but in the second wave, was his understanding. Regardless, they all would have seen heavy fighting.

    As for the bombs themselves, well, between the two about 275,000 people died. That's terrible...war sucks. But, in the combined firing bombings of Dresden, Germany and Tokyo, Japan over 300,000 perished, and most of those, if this bothers you more, in more dreadful, painful ways. Most burned to death. At least in the two nuke attacks, many, many never knew what hit them...in an instant, gone!

    Is it more immoral to drop 1,000-pounders than 500-pounders in conventional bombings, because one is twice as powerful? The nuke is just another weapon, more powerful than other bombs, but still just a weapon. You don't use a sledgehammer to kill an ant, so such powerful weapons have to be used wisely, tactically/strategically.

    There are other "political" reasons Truman decided to use the nukes. One, was to keep the Ruskies out of Japan, and two, to show the Ruskies why they needed to back off their expansion plans into other regions of the world.

    And, most importantly, to save hundreds of thousands of American lives...
    Yeah, I remember reading that it was estimated that if the US had to actually make a landing on Japanese main island, approximately 1 million US would be killed or wounded in the battles.

  8. #23
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    Re: This Date in History

    August 8, 1969 "Helter Skelter". Today is the anniversary of the Manson Family murders of actress Sharon Tate and the others.

  9. #24
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    Re: This Date in History

    Quote Originally Posted by FriscoDog View Post
    Yeah, I remember reading that it was estimated that if the US had to actually make a landing on Japanese main island, approximately 1 million US would be killed or wounded in the battles.
    I think I posted some specifics on this on this board...might have been on another of several forums I am a member of. (never end a sentence in a preposition, BTW).

    Operation Downfall was the code name for the planned invasion of the Japanese mainland. The Japs had retained 2,500 planes to be used in Kamikaze attacks, and they would have wreaked havoc and killed tens of thousands of Americans before the invasion fleet(s) even got near shore. During their regular Kamikaze attacks they did carry out, they sunk 34 of our ships and damaged 368 others, while killing 7,000 of our personnel. The Japs had detailed about 2,000 planes for the suicide missions, but only about 700 actually got close enough to be threats. Many Kamikaze missions ended up failures as inexperienced pilots failed to find a US ship to attack and simply ran out of fuel and had to ditch at sea. And many of the 700 were shot down by our fighters or anti-aircraft fire from the ships. Still, look at the damage done.

    Now, imagine our 600+ ship fleets within 15 miles of the shore such that even the newest Kamikaze pilots would have no problem finding a ship to attack... This fact alone is reason enough for Truman to order the use of the bombs.

  10. #25
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    Re: This Date in History

    Today is the anniversary of the bombing of Nagasaki, 1945.

    After Hiroshima was hit the Japanese leadership stood firm, "we will not surrender." After the second bombing and the promise/prospect of more to follow, the Emperor Hirohito over ruled the military leaders who still insisted on no surrender. Hirohito was seen as a god, and after the second bombing he went on national radio to address his people. For most Japanese it was the first time they had heard his voice, as prior to that, he kept recluse in his palace, not making public appearances. He said in view of this new weapon for which there is no defense, he said he could not allow his people to continue to suffer...Japan would surrender.

    So, since Japan still had thousands of fighter planes, and enough pilots, albeit mostly inexperienced pilots, why was it they were defenseless? Well, the B-29 bomber could operate at altitudes that even the best Jap planes could barely reach, let alone operate at in a combat scenario. We sent four B-29's on the two nuclear bomb missions, the other 3 being decoys to draw off any Jap attempt of attacking the correct plane. Also, the awesome P-51 Mustang, far superior to anything the Japs had, could escort the B-29's all the way to Japan and defend the bombers as necessary. The Japs knew they were helpless to stop the nuke attacks.

    But, what the Japs did not know was...we were out of bombs. Only two had been built and delivered to Tinian Island, home of the B-29 squadron carrying out the missions. It would take more than a month, and probably several months at that time, to build and deliver another nuke to the base. Emperor Hirohito and most of his military advisors assumed we had a whole arsenal of them, ready to go.

    It's a good thing that was in a time of responsible, patriotic journalism. Today CNN et al and the Dems would get a hold of the information...no more bombs ready to go...and instantly broadcast it to the world, thus aiding and abetting our enemies.

    Using the nukes saved countless lives, both American and Japanese.

  11. #26
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    Re: This Date in History

    Oh, the name of the B-29 which dropped the bomb on Nagasaki was Bockscar. The Enola Gay is more famous for having dropped the first one on Hiroshima.

  12. #27
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    Re: This Date in History

    Why I love studying history...the more you know/learn the more you learn that you don't know.

    When the Emperor Hirohito decided he was going to surrender, the palace sent word to the Japanese military leaders of his pending radio announcement. Some fanatics among the Jap military establishment, thinking victory could still be achieved, attempted a coup and stormed the emperor's palace...well actually they were stopped, after a brief gun battle, outside the gates of the palace. Cooler heads prevailed and the fanatics were ordered to stand down. They did.

    The B-29 was developed and production began in 1943. The Manhattan Project had already been underway for more than a year by then and there was a promise, especially in late 1944, of the bomb being ready sooner, rather than later. In its original design the B-29 could not carry a single, large bomb such as the nukes. Each bomb measured 10+ feet in length and weighed about 10,000 lbs (5 tons). It wasn't the weight that was an issue for the plane, per se, but rather the design of the bomb-bay and the suspension system. The B-29s were designed to drop conventional bombs, 500 and 1,000-pounders, and its payload was large such that it had two separate bomb bays and bomb bay doors. But they were not designed to carry a single, large 5-ton bomb. So, as the "silvers" were being redesigned, turning two bomb bays into one larger one, the prospect of the bomb(s) being ready before the new B-29s were was very real. So! the British Lancaster bomber was offered as a substitute to deliver the nukes. It did have a single large bomb bay, doors, and suspension system and had already been used to deliver the Tallboy bombs which weighed 12,000 lbs. They had dropped them on reinforced German bunkers and were used to attack and sink the sister ship to the Bismarck, the Tirpitz. A squadron of Lancasters "the blacks" had been secretly prepared to carry out the nuke attacks on Japan, if the B-29 "silvers" were not ready when the bombs were. These Lancasters were painted a flat, light-absorbing black and had no visible markings. General Hap Arnold in command of the US Air Corps bomber wings in the Pacific wanted an American plane to drop this new American bomb. So, he delayed and delayed until the "silvers" were delivered to Tinian.

    Just a little more tidbits of history...

  13. #28
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    Re: This Date in History

    One of the items I had on my bucket list, that I don't think I will ever get to check off is to dive the "Nuclear Fleet" at Bikini Atoll.. The USS Saratoga (top of her flight deck) is about 100' deep. Very interesting to hear about the H-bomb tests that went on in this area. Lot of WWII history in the ships that sank here.

  14. #29
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    Re: This Date in History

    Quote Originally Posted by FriscoDog View Post
    One of the items I had on my bucket list, that I don't think I will ever get to check off is to dive the "Nuclear Fleet" at Bikini Atoll.. The USS Saratoga (top of her flight deck) is about 100' deep. Very interesting to hear about the H-bomb tests that went on in this area. Lot of WWII history in the ships that sank here.
    The famous, or infamous, German cruiser, the Prince Eugen, was sunk at a nuke bomb test, perhaps the one at Bikini Atoll (thus the name of the dynamite smallish bathing suit!). The Prince Eugen accompanied Bismarck on the famous mission, when HMS Hood was sunk. The Prince Eugen lived a charmed life and was never seriously hit/damaged although she served for 5 years, 1940-1945. After the war she was gifted to the US as part of Germany's war reparations. Since we had plenty of heavy cruisers all better than the older Prince Eugen, she was used as part of that fleet nuked.

    Unfortunately, I have an inner ear thing that prevents me from going down further than about 18-20 feet. Every time I fly, during the landing, I endure excruciating pain...only lasts for a few seconds, although it seems longer. But, I hope you can a chance to dive on those ships. That would be awesome.

  15. #30
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    Re: This Date in History

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    The famous, or infamous, German cruiser, the Prince Eugen, was sunk at a nuke bomb test, perhaps the one at Bikini Atoll (thus the name of the dynamite smallish bathing suit!). The Prince Eugen accompanied Bismarck on the famous mission, when HMS Hood was sunk. The Prince Eugen lived a charmed life and was never seriously hit/damaged although she served for 5 years, 1940-1945. After the war she was gifted to the US as part of Germany's war reparations. Since we had plenty of heavy cruisers all better than the older Prince Eugen, she was used as part of that fleet nuked.

    Unfortunately, I have an inner ear thing that prevents me from going down further than about 18-20 feet. Every time I fly, during the landing, I endure excruciating pain...only lasts for a few seconds, although it seems longer. But, I hope you can a chance to dive on those ships. That would be awesome.
    you know it’s still very radioactive.

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