+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 100

Thread: Justice for Ahmaud

  1. #31
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute detltu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Madisonville, LA
    Posts
    5,491

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    So some of you bring up some good points.
    1. He was seen leaving a construction area- unless it was posted I don't think this is a crime. As dawg80 said, I also love to visit new construction and see houses going up and how they are laid out. Nothing wrong with that.
    2. He was suspected of being a burglar who had stolen things from houses recently. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they suspected him because they saw him running from the construction site. This would give them probable cause to report him and possibly even try to keep an eye on him.
    3. In the video a few people have pointed out that he initiates the contact. I don't really want to watch the video again, but in my memory we see him run along the right side of the truck with redneck #1 by the driver side door. Then the video loses them for a few seconds ( I may be wrong on this) and we see the two on the driver side of the truck struggling with each other. I think that supports the theory that Ahmaud made the initial contact. I don't know what happened in the spot the camera cut away ( or that i am just blanking on) but we can't know if there was something that caused him to try to get the gun away from the guy. We only get one side of the story.
    4. HogDawg mentioned that initiating contact and trying to wrestle the gun away was a stupid thing to do. This is true if you want the people who are about to kill you to get convicted of murder. Fighting for the gun definitely is a dumb thing to do. If you are actually trying not to die it is not a bad option. It didn't work out in this case, but if someone is going to shoot you, trying to get the gun away from them is a valid option.
    5. A couple people have brought up murder charges. This is a great point. Murder is a tough sell and likely a path to them walking away free and clear. If they pursue murder and don't get the conviction people will be outraged. If they pursue a lesser charge like manslaughter people will be outraged regardless. I still think pursuing a lesser charge is the proper course of action.

    In my opinion something has to be done.

    Little hypothetical real quick.
    You (directed at anybody) and I live in the same neighborhood. One day I see you out for a walk and decided to stop you on the street and confront you about stealing my petunias. You have no idea what I'm talking about and deny like the lying Trump supporter( or crazy liberal) you are. You're getting a little angry and I know you are a crazy (insert political affiliation) so you're probably armed. I decide to pull out my handgun (I have a CCL) to be ready for you. As soon as you see the gun you think "this nutjob is about to shoot me over some petunias" and decide to try to get the gun away from me. I fight you for the gun and have to shoot you to stop you. Who is acting in self defense in this situation? We both have a right to be in the street. My gun is legal and legally carried. You initiated the physical contact.
    2017 LTAC Champion donor (110%)
    2017 Football Season ticket holder X3

  2. #32
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,199

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    Little hypothetical real quick.
    You (directed at anybody) and I live in the same neighborhood. One day I see you out for a walk and decided to stop you on the street and confront you about stealing my petunias. You have no idea what I'm talking about and deny like the lying Trump supporter( or crazy liberal) you are. You're getting a little angry and I know you are a crazy (insert political affiliation) so you're probably armed. I decide to pull out my handgun (I have a CCL) to be ready for you. As soon as you see the gun you think "this nutjob is about to shoot me over some petunias" and decide to try to get the gun away from me. I fight you for the gun and have to shoot you to stop you. Who is acting in self defense in this situation? We both have a right to be in the street. My gun is legal and legally carried. You initiated the physical contact.
    Depends upon the extent to which you attempt to stop me (a nutjob mostly libertarian). As applied to this case, they went to extraordinary measures to apprehend him. Didn't the first DA call it a legal citizens arrest? Unless you have first hand knowledge of a crime (which the police report shows they did not), they were breaking the law. Thus, Ahmaud was the only one with a valid self-defense claim.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  3. #33
    Champ DawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond repute DawgyNWindow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    5,049

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    So some of you bring up some good points.
    1. He was seen leaving a construction area- unless it was posted I don't think this is a crime. As dawg80 said, I also love to visit new construction and see houses going up and how they are laid out. Nothing wrong with that.
    2. He was suspected of being a burglar who had stolen things from houses recently. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they suspected him because they saw him running from the construction site. This would give them probable cause to report him and possibly even try to keep an eye on him.
    3. In the video a few people have pointed out that he initiates the contact. I don't really want to watch the video again, but in my memory we see him run along the right side of the truck with redneck #1 by the driver side door. Then the video loses them for a few seconds ( I may be wrong on this) and we see the two on the driver side of the truck struggling with each other. I think that supports the theory that Ahmaud made the initial contact. I don't know what happened in the spot the camera cut away ( or that i am just blanking on) but we can't know if there was something that caused him to try to get the gun away from the guy. We only get one side of the story.
    4. HogDawg mentioned that initiating contact and trying to wrestle the gun away was a stupid thing to do. This is true if you want the people who are about to kill you to get convicted of murder. Fighting for the gun definitely is a dumb thing to do. If you are actually trying not to die it is not a bad option. It didn't work out in this case, but if someone is going to shoot you, trying to get the gun away from them is a valid option.
    5. A couple people have brought up murder charges. This is a great point. Murder is a tough sell and likely a path to them walking away free and clear. If they pursue murder and don't get the conviction people will be outraged. If they pursue a lesser charge like manslaughter people will be outraged regardless. I still think pursuing a lesser charge is the proper course of action.

    In my opinion something has to be done.

    Little hypothetical real quick.
    You (directed at anybody) and I live in the same neighborhood. One day I see you out for a walk and decided to stop you on the street and confront you about stealing my petunias. You have no idea what I'm talking about and deny like the lying Trump supporter( or crazy liberal) you are. You're getting a little angry and I know you are a crazy (insert political affiliation) so you're probably armed. I decide to pull out my handgun (I have a CCL) to be ready for you. As soon as you see the gun you think "this nutjob is about to shoot me over some petunias" and decide to try to get the gun away from me. I fight you for the gun and have to shoot you to stop you. Who is acting in self defense in this situation? We both have a right to be in the street. My gun is legal and legally carried. You initiated the physical contact.
    Not enough information in your hypothetical. What color were the petunias?

  4. #34
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute detltu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Madisonville, LA
    Posts
    5,491

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Depends upon the extent to which you attempt to stop me (a nutjob mostly libertarian). As applied to this case, they went to extraordinary measures to apprehend him. Didn't the first DA call it a legal citizens arrest? Unless you have first hand knowledge of a crime (which the police report shows they did not), they were breaking the law. Thus, Ahmaud was the only one with a valid self-defense claim.
    I think them getting out of the truck with guns is effectively a threat and would cast doubt on any self defense claim. If they were concerned with defending themselves they would have stayed in their truck where they could drive away very safely.
    2017 LTAC Champion donor (110%)
    2017 Football Season ticket holder X3

  5. #35
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute detltu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Madisonville, LA
    Posts
    5,491

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow View Post
    Not enough information in your hypothetical. What color were the petunias?
    You know exactly what color they were you no-good petunia thief.
    2017 LTAC Champion donor (110%)
    2017 Football Season ticket holder X3

  6. #36
    Champ DawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond reputeDawgyNWindow has a reputation beyond repute DawgyNWindow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    5,049

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    You know exactly what color they were you no-good petunia thief.


    Honestly, this looks like second degree murder to me. If you arm yourself, track and then confront someone when you should have just called the police, you have created the whole scenario that led to the killing (even if the guy you shot was a total scumbag...which I am not saying the guy that got shot was).

    This is different from the Trayvon Martin case where Zimmerman (the "white Hispanic" male the media reported to make sure color mattered) was armed but did not confront Trayvon. In that case Trayvon confronted Zimmerman for following him and initiated a fight.

    Just remember that our justice system is one where Casey Anthony and OJ both walked free, and Comey has not yet been charged, so it is imperfect regardless of race.

  7. #37
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute detltu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Madisonville, LA
    Posts
    5,491

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Just an update, there is video that appears to show Ahmaud entering the construction site and looking around. Also supposedly video showing him entering a house minutes before the confrontation with two men.

    Still doesn't make what happened right, but it will affect what level of charges they can bring against the two.
    2017 LTAC Champion donor (110%)
    2017 Football Season ticket holder X3

  8. #38
    Champ techman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond reputetechman05 has a reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ruston
    Posts
    16,104

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Also, just as an aside, this guy was a heck of a jogger. His residence was miles away from where the incident occurred. I only know a few people who run long distances. Like 5 miles away from the house and 5 miles back. Most people I know run laps in their own neighborhood. Maybe 2-3 miles total. And the long distance runners I know never run at night. Curious.

  9. #39
    Champ Geaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond reputeGeaux Dawgs has a reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Shreveport
    Posts
    4,405

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow View Post
    Not enough information in your hypothetical. What color were the petunias?
    I tried not to laugh.....failed

  10. #40
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,199

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    Still doesn't make what happened right, but it will affect what level of charges they can bring against the two.
    Can you explain that to me? I don't see how either video (the supposed video I haven't seen, but I'll take your word for it...I've seen the one of him in the construction site) should change the charges. The McMichaels had no first hand knowledge of any crime (by their own account of the situation supplied to the police at the time of the incident), thus they had no justification for a citizens arrest. Without the citizens arrest, any defense they have falls apart.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  11. #41
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    39,158

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Can you explain that to me? I don't see how either video (the supposed video I haven't seen, but I'll take your word for it...I've seen the one of him in the construction site) should change the charges. The McMichaels had no first hand knowledge of any crime (by their own account of the situation supplied to the police at the time of the incident), thus they had no justification for a citizens arrest. Without the citizens arrest, any defense they have falls apart.
    The morons introduced the gun to the situation, and they "played" the role of law enforcement by pursuing Ahmaud and creating the confrontation. But...after all of that, it was Ahmaud who took it to the next step. It was he who, instead of running away, turned and charged the idiot with the gun. If Ahmaud was attempting to wrestle the gun away and then use it to shoot/kill, then the fellow was put into a "self defense" position. He can now make that claim...he feared for his life. There is no other voice to dispute that either. As with most of these events, it is never all one way or the other.

    My dad taught us gun safety, and to respect them, AND to embrace the enormous responsibility we had whenever we held one. To avoid accidents, and to avoid situations where we assumed some arrogant and antagonistic stance and placed ourselves in a position where now we were either forced to use it, and shoot someone, or be shot/attacked ourselves. Simply put, my dad said "Don't be stupid."

    Well, those two morons in this case were "stupid."

  12. #42
    Champ JuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond reputeJuBru has a reputation beyond repute JuBru's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    19,935

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Arbery ran to the opposite side of the truck than the idiot driver was on. The idiot driver then went to that side to confront Arbery.


    The confrontation started in all aspects by the idiots in the vehicle.

  13. #43
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,199

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by JuBru View Post
    Arbery ran to the opposite side of the truck than the idiot driver was on. The idiot driver then went to that side to confront Arbery.


    The confrontation started in all aspects by the idiots in the vehicle.
    Right. According to GA law, what the McMichaels did was felony false imprisonment. The persons committing the felony can no more act in their self defense than an armed robber can shoot a convenience store clerk that physically assaults him in an attempt to stop the robbery.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  14. #44
    Big Dog tech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to alltech70 is a name known to all
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, LA.
    Posts
    795

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Manslaughter at a minimum.

  15. #45
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,199

    Re: Justice for Ahmaud

    Quote Originally Posted by tech70 View Post
    Manslaughter at a minimum.
    In GA, what would be manslaughter can be seen as murder if the murder takes place while committing a felony. Arbery's team will attempt to prove false imprisonment.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts