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Thread: George Floyd

  1. #241
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    This is not true. I believe the charge was felony murder. Intent doesn't need to be present to get a felony murder conviction. They will have to prove that the officer was committing a felony (like assault) that ultimately resulted in death.


    felony murder doctrine

    (redirected from Felony murder)
    Also found in: Dictionary, Medical, Wikipedia.felony murder doctrine

    n. a rule of criminal statutes that any death which occurs during the commission of a felony is first degree murder, and all participants in that felony or attempted felony can be charged with and found guilty of murder. A typical example is a robbery involving more than one criminal, in which one of them shoots, beats to death or runs over a store clerk, killing the clerk. Even if the death were accidental, all of the participants can be found guilty of felony murder, including those who did no harm, had no gun, and/or did not intend to hurt anyone. In a bizarre situation, if one of the hold-up men or women is killed, his fellow robbers can be charged with murder. (See: murder)



    Were the police in the commission of a felony? Or were they trying to make an arrest? I guess if you can say the arrest itself is a felony then that statute would apply. I can't see it holding up in court. What happened was horrible and shouldn't happen, I just don't believe they will get a murder conviction based on all the evidence, unless there is some new evidence that comes to light.
    felony murder doctrine

    (redirected from Felony murder)
    Also found in: Dictionary, Medical, Wikipedia.felony murder doctrine

    n. a rule of criminal statutes that any death which occurs during the commission of a felony is first degree murder, and all participants in that felony or attempted felony can be charged with and found guilty of murder. A typical example is a robbery involving more than one criminal, in which one of them shoots, beats to death or runs over a store clerk, killing the clerk. Even if the death were accidental, all of the participants can be found guilty of felony murder, including those who did no harm, had no gun, and/or did not intend to hurt anyone. In a bizarre situation, if one of the hold-up men or women is killed, his fellow robbers can be charged with murder. (See: murder)


  2. #242
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by GonzoDawg View Post

    Were the police in the commission of a felony? Or were they trying to make an arrest? I guess if you can say the arrest itself is a felony then that statute would apply. I can't see it holding up in court. What happened was horrible and shouldn't happen, I just don't believe they will get a murder conviction based on all the evidence, unless there is some new evidence that comes to light.
    My main point was that intent is immaterial in this case...as it pertains to Floyd's death. I imagine excessive force/assault will be the thing that the prosecution tries to prove.
    Last edited by johnnylightnin; 08-12-2020 at 10:02 AM.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  3. #243
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    Re: George Floyd

    But is that a felony crime? Because without a felony crime then they have to be able to prove intent. That's my point.

  4. #244
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by GonzoDawg View Post
    But is that a felony crime? Because without a felony crime then they have to be able to prove intent. That's my point.
    It depends on a lot of things, but battery can be a misdemeanor or a felony.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  5. #245
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    It depends on a lot of things, but battery can be a misdemeanor or a felony.
    From the CBS Minnesota website "In Minneapolis, kneeling on a suspect’s neck is allowed under the department’s use-of-force policy for officers who have received training in how to compress a neck without applying direct pressure to the airway. It is considered a “non-deadly force option,” according to the department’s policy handbook."

    It's going to be really hard to convict him if he had that training when the departments handbook says it can be used. Just to be clear, I think the guy should go to jail, I just don't think they are going to get a murder charge to stick and that is going to cause more riots.

  6. #246
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    Re: George Floyd

    George Floyd died as a direct result of the drugs he was on, the meth, fentanyl, whatever...I don't know drugs and don't care to. He was super high, hyped-up and then made anxious, as in an anxiety attack, when stopped by the police for having just committed, yet another, felony crime. From the first moment, while still seated in his van, and the police merely trying to talk to him, he was complaining, "I can't breathe." Yeah, no doubt, the affects of the drugs and now his situation.

    Like most everyone else I was aghast at the optics and then the results of the previously released short video clip of the knee on Floyd's neck, back of shoulders, and then being informed he kept saying he couldn't breathe...for some 8 minutes. Based strictly on the information I had (we all had) I was like, what is wrong with that cop? And what about the other cops, why didn't they intervene? Turns out...we now know the answers, the truth.

  7. #247
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    George Floyd died as a direct result of the drugs he was on, the meth, fentanyl, whatever...I don't know drugs and don't care to. He was super high, hyped-up and then made anxious, as in an anxiety attack, when stopped by the police for having just committed, yet another, felony crime. From the first moment, while still seated in his van, and the police merely trying to talk to him, he was complaining, "I can't breathe." Yeah, no doubt, the affects of the drugs and now his situation.

    Like most everyone else I was aghast at the optics and then the results of the previously released short video clip of the knee on Floyd's neck, back of shoulders, and then being informed he kept saying he couldn't breathe...for some 8 minutes. Based strictly on the information I had (we all had) I was like, what is wrong with that cop? And what about the other cops, why didn't they intervene? Turns out...we now know the answers, the truth.
    I’m glad recruits don’t read this board anymore.

  8. #248
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
    I’m glad recruits don’t read this board anymore.
    Because recruits don't like the truth?

  9. #249
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
    I’m glad recruits don’t read this board anymore.
    Right. Let's have a discussion, but not listen to both sides if the story.

  10. #250
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    George Floyd died as a direct result of the drugs he was on, the meth, fentanyl, whatever...I don't know drugs and don't care to. He was super high, hyped-up and then made anxious, as in an anxiety attack, when stopped by the police for having just committed, yet another, felony crime. From the first moment, while still seated in his van, and the police merely trying to talk to him, he was complaining, "I can't breathe." Yeah, no doubt, the affects of the drugs and now his situation.

    Like most everyone else I was aghast at the optics and then the results of the previously released short video clip of the knee on Floyd's neck, back of shoulders, and then being informed he kept saying he couldn't breathe...for some 8 minutes. Based strictly on the information I had (we all had) I was like, what is wrong with that cop? And what about the other cops, why didn't they intervene? Turns out...we now know the answers, the truth.
    The autopsy showed that Floyd had enough fentanyl in him to kill him.

  11. #251
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    Re: George Floyd

    Let’s play drugs were killing George Floyd, for a quick second.

    What department’s SOP says put a knee on the neck of someone who’s handcuffed and overdosing?

    Messed up.

  12. #252
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
    I think you’re pretty much preaching to an Archie Bunker crowd.
    Great writing and acting

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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    The autopsy showed that Floyd had enough fentanyl in him to kill him.
    Is it a pain med? Is it what M Jackson had taken?

  14. #254
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
    Let’s play drugs were killing George Floyd, for a quick second.

    What department’s SOP says put a knee on the neck of someone who’s handcuffed and overdosing?

    Messed up.
    The knee on the neck is (or was) a perfectly acceptable technique by that police department (and others) and the officers were trained in the proper way to employ it. Floyd did die as a direct result of the drugs he was hyped-up on. People die from drugs every day.

    Now, I agree, based on everything I have seen, in this case, the suspect George Floyd should have been handled differently. Watching the video of the arrest, it was very clear Floyd was high. His behavior was erratic. He was not acting in a threatening manner toward the officers, although yes, that could have changed in an instant, but the officers had already taken the appropriate actions by cuffing him. But, his behavior did, and would have for any arresting officers, caused problems. Police call for EMTs to come assist suspects all the time. Even after a suspect had just tried to kill them, say in a shooting, police call EMTs to provide for a suspect who needs medical attention. In the 9 minutes I have seen, and other reports, there is no mention of EMTs being called for until Floyd did indeed experience extreme distress, then pass away moments later.

    What is CNN and MSNBC and other lib lamestream media saying of the very revealing video and the other reports? I don't watch any of those. How have those media outlets dissected the video and reports?

    There was no murder. There was not even manslaughter. As a civil matter, there is a case for wrongful death. But, nothing criminal. Those officers present dropped the ball, if one of them was supposed to be in charge at the scene, there is some serious flaws needing addressing. If that department has had training and has in place protocols for dealing with drugged-out suspects, they need some reviewing.

  15. #255
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    Re: George Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    The knee on the neck is (or was) a perfectly acceptable technique by that police department (and others) and the officers were trained in the proper way to employ it. Floyd did die as a direct result of the drugs he was hyped-up on. People die from drugs every day.

    Now, I agree, based on everything I have seen, in this case, the suspect George Floyd should have been handled differently. Watching the video of the arrest, it was very clear Floyd was high. His behavior was erratic. He was not acting in a threatening manner toward the officers, although yes, that could have changed in an instant, but the officers had already taken the appropriate actions by cuffing him. But, his behavior did, and would have for any arresting officers, caused problems. Police call for EMTs to come assist suspects all the time. Even after a suspect had just tried to kill them, say in a shooting, police call EMTs to provide for a suspect who needs medical attention. In the 9 minutes I have seen, and other reports, there is no mention of EMTs being called for until Floyd did indeed experience extreme distress, then pass away moments later.

    What is CNN and MSNBC and other lib lamestream media saying of the very revealing video and the other reports? I don't watch any of those. How have those media outlets dissected the video and reports?

    There was no murder. There was not even manslaughter. As a civil matter, there is a case for wrongful death. But, nothing criminal. Those officers present dropped the ball, if one of them was supposed to be in charge at the scene, there is some serious flaws needing addressing. If that department has had training and has in place protocols for dealing with drugged-out suspects, they need some reviewing.
    You make some very salient points, but you’re off in your first paragraph on a couple big things.

    If you find me a department with an SOP of a knee of the neck of a handcuffed person, let me know. That’s not how that works.

    Also, medical examiners disagree with you on the cause of death. I’m not qualified to argue them.

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