doctor, engineer and international business, just concede you are a communist, ignorant or both.Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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doctor, engineer and international business, just concede you are a communist, ignorant or both.
The Trump administration is failing him, huh?
Even after he ran their passports for them, ICE still didn't do anything? Maybe the president is playing too much golf. Or filing (and then withdrawing) too many baseless lawsuits.
Sounds like they should do just fine and don’t need you making excuses for them.
Presidents don’t cost capitalists money. Elections happen, and capitalists know they will happen. If you put yourself in a position where an election outcome radically impacts your ability to make an income, well that sounds very liberal of you to blame the government for that one.
This is genius.
Of course we all know that it is President Trump, personally, that runs down illegals at the border.
Way to join the lemmings.
Way to knock down a straw man!
Do you want elections to be fair and do you believe the American people should have faith in the election process? Yes, or no?
If the answer is YES (and I hope that it is), then you should welcome the recounts, investigations into ballot tampering, etc. There are sworn affidavits of people who witnessed poll watchers being turned away, ballots being tampered with, and other things that have a LOT more basis in fact than Russian interference 4 years ago, but since the election didn't go in the Democrats' favor then, they spent 3+ years trying to undo the results.
I will tell you that I, as a conservative Republican, couldn't give a rats arse if any of these razor thin margins flipped the election to DJT. If, after all the recounts, investigations and everyone says, our election was perfectly fine, and Trump lost, then I'm content to move on. I won't be banging a drum for the next 3 years trying to uncover something to remove Biden from office. If he won, fair and square, i'm prepared to accept it. All I want is to believe our elections are not becoming some 3rd world, banana republic nonsense.
I pray you feel the same way.
Yes, I want our elections to be fair and by all evidence they were. Any election fraud should be prosecuted, just like it always is.
But there is no evidence that any fraud had an impact on the election, so there is no reason to pretend like it did. It is entirely possible for Republicans to accept the result of the election while any cases of fraud are investigated and prosecuted.
This is a thread about the next president. I assumed the concern was that he'll continue to allow such atrocities. Why else bring it up on a thread in reference in Biden? Although, to be fair, if President Trump's administration can't stop this, can anyone?
It is true that it has long been out of line to criticize a sitting President for playing too much golf. Regardless (or irregardless, which maddawg will be happy to hear is now a real word) of whether one opposes or supports a President, we should probably give them all the benefit of the doubt about their personal time, right? Just as we always have.
I do suspect that many (all?) of the election lawsuits are in bad faith, but as has been said over and over in the other threads here, he's free to file them and see where they go. The system allows it, even though everything that is permissible is not beneficial*.
*I tried to resist making a "One Corinthians" joke here.
"by all evidence they were." -- if that were the case, there wouldn't be hundreds of people who have put their names, families lives, professional lives, etc., on the line to say in writing "What I witnessed (or in some cases actually participated in) was wrong, and I want to speak up."
People don't just do that. They could go to jail for perjury if they sign an affidavit stating they witnessed or took part in these shenanigans and it be a lie.
Let the process work. For all of us as Americans...we HAVE to be able to believe in the integrity of our elections. it's the most precious freedom we have.
There hasn’t been. That is the point that some Republicans are missing.
Okay. Thanks.
There certainly aren’t hundreds with merit. I read one yesterday where the “irregularity” was that someone in the military voted for Biden...seriously.
If trust in the process is your goal (which is admirable), I would expect you to condemn the President’s rhetoric for the better part of the year. He’s set up most of his devotees to only accept a favorable outcome for him.
Do you not agree that the democrats have been saying that Trump has been an illegitimate POTUS since 2016 because the outcome of 2016 was not favorable to them?
I also think that there maybe haven't really been hundreds of very credible claims. But like you, I agree that whatever claims there are, certainly should be investigated (as they always are). I think they all need to be examined and classified and punished in the appropriate ways. Most of what I have read from experts has said that for sure out of almost 160 million you will almost certainly have illegal votes (on both sides). You can almost 100% be certain that somebody mailed in their dead relative's ballot (or filled out their living relative's ballot). Again, on both sides.
But even if it's "hundreds" like you said - it isn't going to change the overall results. It would have to be tens of thousands. And the evidence just doesn't point to conspiracies. So, sure - look for fraud, ask for audits, whatever. But some of this "the only way I could have lost is if they cheated" stuff is over the top. It's not good for us and hurts your ideal (which I very much agree with) of "we HAVE to be able to believe in the integrity of our elections." I do think that many can see through the bluster and take the public comments with a grain of salt (if not completely cynically). But, I worry that there are some who are true believers and may not be as willing to accept defeat no matter what.
If Trump (and/or his team) would say what you're saying - "hey, we need to trust the elections, there are some places to look into, once the process has completely run we'll concede if needed" that would be one thing. But that hasn't been the message.
I don't know about the man himself or his motivations (although I have my guesses) but there is almost certainly some bad faith politicking going on in an effort to help in Georgia or set up "we were robbed" narratives for future financial gain going on. I wish we were all just a little less given to hyperbole (on both sides).
I think this was from November 9th of 2016.
I certainly remember lots of "so this is why we should eliminate the electoral college" talk (which probably wouldn't have come up if they had won). And plenty of "Trump has been an illegitimate POTUS" for a variety of other reasons (whether you buy those arguments or not). But I don't remember the votes being contested so much. I'm sure there was some of that. But I think the Obama administration handed over access fairly quickly, right? I know there was a 9/11 recommendation about how important that part is. I feel like there were even some quotes from within about how Trump wasn't prepared to take over, didn't want to put a team together, etc.Thank you so very much for being here. I love you all, too. Last night I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country.
I really hope that as the state certifications come in, the concession comes and a transition starts happening. Maybe we need to consider holding the election date earlier (despite the problems with that) to ensure the process can play out in time for a good transition. I do worry about that some (and frankly would be less concerned if I thought the chance of a change was more credible - as it is, again - it just looks to be motivated by something(s) other than an expectation of changing the overall result).
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