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Thread: Stelly Plan

  1. #1
    Super Moderator maddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond repute maddawg's Avatar
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    Just wondering what my fellow Louisiana voters thought about this. I'm not for it. It has been mis-represented and the statistics they are using to sell it are flawed. I don't like the sales tax, but if I've got to pay, everybody should!

    The biggest lie of all is being told by Foster, Stelly, and Co. about only the top 20 percent paying and the numbers they are using. I can GUARANTEE that I am NOT in the top 20 percent, but according to the wages they use I am. I think they must be using 1975 statistics.

    ONLY IN LOUISIANA!!

  2. #2
    Champ markay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to all markay714's Avatar
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    I listened to the governor's radio show on Thursday and was really appalled at how they were presenting it. The whole focus was how if it passes that old people couldn't be charged taxes on their prescriptions. No way I'm voting for the Stelly plan.

  3. #3
    Champ Soonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond repute Soonerdawg's Avatar
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    In my opinion, if a person is employed, and they vote for the Stelly plan, then that person is either ignorant or a fool. I was listening to that Moon fellow on the radio the other day, and he makes the valid point that the proponents of this plan are appealing to the same people that elected Edwards, Brown and a whole host of other convicts, in order to get this bit of socialism past us.

    As Bill Buckley says, "if you rob Peter to pay Paul, you always get Paul's vote." That is the Stelly plan in a nutshell.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator maddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond repute maddawg's Avatar
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    ...............yes it is time to bring back the Poll Tax.

    Seriously (and I was), Moon is doing a great job of getting the truth out on this thing. If it weren't for him and a few others, there would be no opposition to this thing. Notice that there are no ads against it. Why? Because there is no money opposing it. That should tell everyone something. Stelly and Co. have the right intentions, but they are blinded by the bogus statistics they are being given. This will be one of the biggest "railroad" jobs in the history of La. Politics.

  5. #5
    Champ markay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to all markay714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddawg
    ...............yes it is time to bring back the Poll Tax.

    Seriously (and I was), Moon is doing a great job of getting the truth out on this thing. If it weren't for him and a few others, there would be no opposition to this thing. Notice that there are no ads against it. Why? Because there is no money opposing it. That should tell everyone something. Stelly and Co. have the right intentions, but they are blinded by the bogus statistics they are being given. This will be one of the biggest "railroad" jobs in the history of La. Politics.
    I'm hoping for a low turnout - and only the gainfully employed people will vote. In my thinking that will be the most likely to produce the desired results on every issue/candidate!

  6. #6
    So, I guessing you folks would like to make permanent the rest of the"temporary" cents of the state sales tax???

    Y'all gotta help me out here. From everything I've read it doesn't sound that bad (and I was pretty skeptical from the get-go of anything from vic stelly, endorsed by big daddy).

    And those damn CABL do-gooders have been on this bandwagon for a while.

    You have to admit that sales tax set up like this is extrememly regressive, and poor folks pay a much higher percentage than they should. I mean, think about it. A family of 4 with a household income of $20K, for all intents and purposes, drinks the same amount of milk, uses the same amount of electricity as a family of 4 bringing home $2MM a year -- they just pay a much larger percent of tax on it.

  7. #7
    Champ Soonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond reputeSoonerdawg has a reputation beyond repute Soonerdawg's Avatar
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    I could reinvent the wheel, and respond with original "words of wisdom." However, as I was thinking of my response, I thought to myself, that Moon Griffon has made this a major point of his program lately. So, I figured, correctly, that he would address this on his web site, moongriffon.com. He did. So, instead of trying to do this as an amature, I will let Moon explain it:

    "Explanation of the Tax System
    Suppose everyday, 10 men go to dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If it were paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four men would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

    The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." Now dinner for the 10 only costs $80.

    The first four are unaffected. They still eat for free. Can you figure out how to divvy up the $20 savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share? The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, but if they subtract that from everybody's share, then the fifth man the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meal.

    The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

    And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59. Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man pointing to the tenth, "and he got $7!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!" "That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks." "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor."

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They were $52 short!

    And that, boys and girls and politicians, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Switzerland and the Caribbean."

  8. #8
    Super Moderator maddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond repute maddawg's Avatar
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    No Turbo, I'm not for making the sales tax permanent. What I am for is our State government showing some resposibility by CUTTING spending. Oh, our gov says he has done that during the last six years, but our budget has gone up, our roads are worse, and we have one more four year university. Go figure. Until they show us some REAL money being saved, I'm not for a tax increase.

  9. #9
    Champ markay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to all markay714's Avatar
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    I'm in the cut spending camp as well, Turbo! I wish they'd do away with the federal income tax and make it a sales tax instead - that way drug dealers and everybody pay the same percentage based on what they have to spend. I don't think that those of us that make more should pay a higher percentage of our income - where's the motivation to excel still more if you can't keep it anyway?

  10. #10
    Champ Champ967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond repute Champ967's Avatar
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    where's the motivation to excel
    A sense of accomplishment. A sense of duty. A desire to contribute to the community. A religious/spiritual obligation.

  11. #11
    Administrator AustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to allAustinDawg is a name known to all AustinDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967
    where's the motivation to excel
    A sense of accomplishment. A sense of duty. A desire to contribute to the community. A religious/spiritual obligation.
    Virtues which we can all agree are present in spades among society's drug dealers and deadbeats.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator maddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond reputemaddawg has a reputation beyond repute maddawg's Avatar
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    I knew this one would get my old buddy out of the backwoods of Arkansas. I also knew what you would say. You are too predictable. You are still okay though. Where were you Saturday?

  13. #13
    Champ Champ967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond repute Champ967's Avatar
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    You are too predictable.
    That's a characteristic of an internally consistent worldview.

    Saturday morning I was on moving detail for mom-in-law. I ended up watching the game in the North endzone on the East side.

  14. #14
    Champ markay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to allmarkay714 is a name known to all markay714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967
    where's the motivation to excel
    A sense of accomplishment. A sense of duty. A desire to contribute to the community. A religious/spiritual obligation.
    Cash on the barrelhead works wonderfully, too. And, its a DEmotivator to work hard only to have it taken from you to give to sluggards and n'er do wells. Yes, I do have compassion and mercy, but I prefer to pick my own charities!

  15. #15
    Okay, before this tangent takes off into the inherent nature of mankind... :wink:

    So far, the only evidence I've got to counter the endorsement of #2 by the Advocate, Town Talk, NewsStar, CABL, the Dems, the Reps, etc, is little tax lesson ditty from a Justin Wilson wannabe with a degree from NLU. :P

    Here's kinda the way I see it, and I'll use my Grandmaw as an example (she'd be thrilled):

    Grandmaw is a widower that lives with her lap dog in the same clapboard house she's kept since my Paw Paw built it when he got back from fighting the Japanese.

    Her income consists of what she draws from SS, and some benefits from my Grandfather's employer (he worked for something like 40 years at pretty much the same job, in the same office of the same mill until he retired).

    Every sunday, she attends the same church she was baptised at when she was a kid, and when she gets home, she still turns on the Saints just to ignore them like she did when my Grandfather was alive. (Just trying to give Grandmaw some cred. She's solid. Folks if there ever were any. And she's not a drug dealer, or a ne'er do well. :P )

    Now, there's no two ways about it: she's got a pretty low income. She makes it on what she gets, but not by a whole lot.

    But, consider the PERCENTAGE of my Grandmaw's income that is spent (THEREBY TAXED) on medicine, utilities, and groceries. It's not a stretch to say that she spends (and is, again, taxed on) the MAJORITY of her income on stuff she needs just to get by.

    You could think about it as, she (who is among the least able to pay) is probably being taxed at a greater rate, than most of the people in the state. I mean, think about the five bucks on every 100 spent on groceries or medicine or gas, as opposed to her income.

    How's that fair?

    Why don't we can the regressive tax structure?

    What am I missing?

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