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Thread: Sic 'em Aubrey

  1. #1
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    Ancient, giant oak cut down



    Advocate staff photo by Richard Alan Hannon
    Steve Shurtz, director of the city-parish's Office of Landscape and Forestry, visited the site Tuesday where tree cutters felled a 300-year-old live oak tree on North Harrell's Ferry Road near South Sherwood Forest Boulevard. He tried to stall the workers, but found the move was legal.


    By CHANTE DIONNE WARREN
    cwarren@theadvocate.com
    Advocate staff writer


    The sprawling centuries-old oak tree that shaded and defined a portion of North Harrell's Ferry Road is no more.

    The giant oak, which sat a couple of lots behind McDonald's restaurant and across from a Rite Aid pharmacy, was listed last year in the East Baton Rouge Parish Registry of Ancient, Historic and Unique Trees. On Tuesday morning, workers with chain saws downed the tree and city-parish officials couldn't do anything about it.

    The property owner, Sied B. Redwan, wanted the tree removed from his lot in the 11000 block of North Harrell's Ferry Road, Steve Shurtz, director of the city-parish's Office of Landscape and Forestry, said.

    Redwan could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

    "We have no legal remedy here," Shurtz said.

    "To some, it's a valuable heritage and to others, it's a nuisance. I guess to this owner, it's a nuisance. You see how quickly 300 years can disappear."

    Nearby business owners watched in disbelief as limbs and branches from the tree, which spanned about 30-feet in circumference, fell.

    "It's just a shame," said Carl Kennedy, who owns an accounting service and "Get Gifts" shop near the tree. Kennedy covered his own shop sign with a printed message asking to "help" save the oak.

    An employee at another business behind the tree also watched in disappointment.

    "It's pretty horrible what's going on. Something that old shouldn't be torn down," said Ryan Scott, of Power and Control System's Inc.

    But it can.

    The city-parish doesn't have ordinances to protect these types of trees from being demolished, Shurtz said. "It's one of those things where there are communities that have ordinances that restrict this and others that don't," he said. "Baton Rouge is one."

    The tree ordinance that is in effect is part of the Unified Development Code, the technical rules devised to govern development.

    In June, the Tree and Landscape Commission, an advisory agency to the mayor, sought public support for proposed changes that would require more greenery and better enforcement of the existing ordinance when new developments are built.

    The ordinance calls for one tree in every 10,000 square feet, about the same amount of space as the average-sized property for a single family home.

    The proposed changes would require four trees in the same space, greenery to shield parking lots from the street and vegetation between buildings and parking lots. The ordinance does not require any shrubs or ground cover for new developments.

    But the ordinance needs more teeth, Shurtz said, and negotiations are ongoing. Shurtz has said that in addition to their beauty, another benefit of having trees is their impact on the environment.

    The Tree and Landscape Commission recently made tree preservation recommendations to the Zoning Advisory Commission to help prevent ancient trees from encountering the same fate as the North Harrell's Ferry Road tree, Shurtz said. One recommendation would require property owners to have permits before removing something like a historic tree or even offering tax breaks to owners who want to build.

    If the two commissions complete negotiations soon, Shurtz said, the recommendations could reach the parish's Planning Commission by March. Beyond that, he said, public hearings will be held and the Metro Council, which started the tree registry in 1996, will take up the matter.

    "There will be lots of opportunity for regular folks to make their opinions heard," Shurtz said.

    Councilman Darrell Ourso, who along with Councilman Mike Walker helped put the oak tree on the parish's registry of ancient trees, said its demise will serve as an example.

    "The best we can hope for is a wake-up call. We demanded better billboard legislation and we need to do the same for trees," he said.

    Earlier this month, the Metro Council approved a measure that extends a buffer in all directions from a sign. Under the new restrictions, the size of the buffer varies according to the size of the sign.

    Signs with a face of 275 square feet or less would have a 110-foot buffer, those with a face of 276 to 378 square feet would have a 165-foot buffer and those bigger than 379 square feet would require a 250-foot buffer.

    Those distances more than double the minimum buffer between an off-premise billboard and any property zoned residential or rural. The minimum buffer has been 50 feet.

    As for the trees, Ourso shared Shurtz' view on offering tax credit incentives to give property owners a chance to think twice before deciding to down them. "I'm going to do whatever I can to encourage council members to do so. This is a 300-year-old tree destroyed " in one day, he said.

    "We don't have to make a requirement a negative thing. There are incentives we can incorporate so it won't become as a negative," he said.

    Ourso was carrying his child to day care at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday when he said he noticed trucks and tree-cutting equipment around the tree.

    Ourso called Shurtz, who reached the site as the tree-cutting began and tried to stall the job. Workers from Borskey Tree Service showed Shurtz their liability insurance and license to cut the tree.

  2. #2
    Champ Champ967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond reputeChamp967 has a reputation beyond repute Champ967's Avatar
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    How dare anyone attempt to stand in the way of the Almighty Dollar! :evil:

    Sadly, much preservation and conservation awareness comes as a reaction to such events. With sufficient public outcry, maybe this instance could be the impetus for tougher conservation ordinances.

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    I hate to see the thing go, but if you ask me, I think it was a hazard. As the article said, it had a huge limb span which included over the road. I lived in this area until a little over a year ago (the tree was about .3 of a mile from my house), and would get nervous traveling under it for fear of a falling branch, especially during bad weather.

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    The owner of the lot is probably an LSU fan.

    The owner probably acquired the property cheap and hopes to sell it to a developer for a lot more.

    The city planning commission and city council should make sure nothing is EVER built on the lot!

    The owner should be tied to the stump for the month of August!

    Ironically, you don't see many really OLD houses without trees in positions to provide shade. The advent of central heat and air conditioning has created a couple of generations of people who don't realize the value of shade.
    Go to www.aubunique.com to find some further comments on the value of trees in several different columns. I'll be adding to that site weekly and I guarantee the topic won't be forgotten.

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    Believe it or not, I hate to see trees, especially ones that are centuries old, to be cut down. However, the property owner has ever right to maintain and manage his land as long as it is within the boundary of the law.

    Watching a city like Houston grow can make you sick sometimes. But, in some cases, such as where an empty abandoned pasture with little plant growth on it is turned into a nice residential area with lots or trees and landscaping etc., the development does not bother me as much.

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    as it is within the boundary of the law
    Hopefully, this event will lead to a change in the law. :idea:

    it is turned into a nice residential area with lots or trees and landscaping
    Your opinion might change if you knew the amount of pollution and erosion (from changed runoff patterns) those little developments produce. :shock:

    What's a travesty is that there's often already excellent existing housing closer in to the urban core. But folks would rather destroy open space just so they wont have to live amongst "undesirables". (Which is all too often just a perception perpetuated by developers!) :x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967
    Your opinion might change if you knew the amount of pollution and erosion (from changed runoff patterns) those little developments produce. :shock:
    Actually, I do know. I am a Project Manager for a consulting engineering firm in Houston. ALL I do is manage design of residential developments.

    Prior to construction, a stormwater pollution plan has to be submitted, approved, and implemented before any construction can begin. Mainly this is for erosion control while the development is under construction.

    Detention and stormwater quality ponds must be constructed. After the development is constructed, the runoff patterns are controlled by stormwater detention and quality requirements. No increased runnoff is allowed and there are designs in place to allow settlement of any sediment, debris, etc. within a section of the detention pond. SO, after completion, there is no erosion or increase in runoff.

    And these requirements are not just for Houston, but for all metropolitan areas (over 100,000 population). Within the next year, these requirements will apply everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967
    What's a travesty is that there's often already excellent existing housing closer in to the urban core. But folks would rather destroy open space just so they wont have to live amongst "undesirables". (Which is all too often just a perception perpetuated by developers!) :x
    Houston (and most cities) have large amounts of areas that could be reclaimed. And, actually, in Houston there is a large amount of construction and remodalization near the downtown areas. They key is being able to afford living so "close in"

    The reason for growth in the outer areas is mostly because of the cost of living is much cheaper in the suburbs than "in town". Houston neighborhoods are very diverse and many "undesirable" sections are adjacent to "good" sections, both which share the same stores, gas stations, etc.

    And, developers are not all about money. Most of the clients I deal with are concerned about the neighborhood they are creating.

  8. #8
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    I know it is difficult to appreciate the value of preserving every speck of green space possible when

    1 A person may benefit from development.
    2 A person has not grown up hunting, fishing, hiking, bird-watching, camping, paddling streams, etc.
    3 A person assumes that natural resources are unlimited.
    4 A person for some reason doesn't believe that man's burgeoning population and ability to change the face of the earth will gradually make the planet unlivable.
    5 Etc.


    For me, having trees and birds and other wildlife around is extremely important.
    The value of protecting nature is well-documented and ought to be a part of a basic education. The only way the polluters get their way long term is to prevent people from all getting the education and experience necessary to understand the value of a livable environment.

    Dawgs lost the second game. It's over. I am turning off the computer and going home now!

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    Hey, I love green space. I grew up in a place that has plenty of it.

    But, as long as the world's population increases, there will be land taken to provide shelter for that population.

    I am just glad that when we do develop property, that we are finally trying to compensate for the negative effects by providing green space, trees, erosion control, and detention for increased runoff.

    The community I live has many parks with trees and ponds with ducks, birds, and fish and every home is required to have at least 2 trees in the front yard (and these are pretty narrow lots).

    If there are trees to be saved, I want them protected. I noticed one new community in my area had a large live oak at the entrance. The entrance road was routed AROUND the tree to save it. It is small efforts like that which give me satisfaction that some of us are trying to do find a balance between man and nature. And, that is the best we can hope for.

  10. #10
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    after completion, there is no erosion or increase in runoff.
    Looking at each new cul-de-sac or strip mall on its own, the impact is, I'll concede, minimal in the larger context of the metro area. But I'll maintain that the amalgam of the ALL the sprawling development has a definite, measurable impact on a region. Moisture that should (by nature's design) be in the soil is now in ditches and runoff ponds. And it is thus not returned to the environment at the rate or in the manner it would naturally. Not such a big deal when we're looking at one parking lot. But when considering the thousands and thousands of paved square miles .... well, you get the idea.

    Not to be argumentative :wink:, but I couldnt help but notice that you didnt address the impact of pollution on all those miles and miles of auto-dependent developments.

    these requirements are not just for Houston, but for all metropolitan areas (over 100,000 population). Within the next year, these requirements will apply everywhere.
    But, to be fair .... these measures ARE a step in the right direction. Not long ago, such considerations didnt exist at all.

    developers are not all about money
    As you may have guessed, I strongly question that. But perhaps the Houston-area developers are a little more enlightened than those in the Natural State, on which my misivings are based.

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    there will be land taken to provide shelter for that population
    Hey! Who isnt for providing shelter? But when did the sculpted acre lot become a part of that?

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    I'll concede the point about the increased pollution from automobiles and sprawl. However, that is a whole other battle. Hopefully, we can make changes for the better in that area also. Please see my last post about world population growth.


    Not all developers are "good guys", but many more than you would expect try to consider things other than their costs.

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    You and I are pretty close on this issue. I am just trying to provide some perspective from an engineering standpoint. I have to deal with stuff like this everyday.

    Like a said before, somewhere there is a good balance between man and nature. Not there yet, but we are working on it.

  14. #14
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    YES, EJ, every problem, including crime and war, result from increasing population. The optimum population of the North American continent was reached long before Columbus discoverd it.
    If an understanding of the need to control population and a dependable condom had been available 1,000 years ago, Europeans wouldn't have flocked to other continents and overpopulated and polluted them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aubunique
    YES, EJ, every problem, including crime and war, result from increasing population. The optimum population of the North American continent was reached long before Columbus discoverd it.
    If an understanding of the need to control population and a dependable condom had been available 1,000 years ago, Europeans wouldn't have flocked to other continents and overpopulated and polluted them.
    You are REALLY "out there" on this one Aubrey. Your bottom line would be that the world would be a better place had the Americas not been settled at all right?

    I disagree that every problem is a result of increasing population. We are instucted by our maker to reproduce and be the care takers of this very short stay here on planet earth. Yes, it will be a very short stay for us as individuals and for us as mankind. The problems we have faced thoughout history are a result of not following God's law. Starving people, the "so called" destruction of our environment, and unrest are not the result of over population. That's just too simple. Those things result from man's desire to be in control, which brings us to a familiar debate.

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