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Thread: To smoke or not to smoke...

  1. #1
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    To smoke or not to smoke...

    Company's Decision to Dismiss Workers Who Smoke Alarms Privacy and Workers' Rights Advocates

    By KATHY BARKS HOFFMAN, Associated Press Writer

    OKEMOS, Mich. -- A Michigan company's decision to dismiss workers who smoke, even if it's on their own time, has privacy and workers' rights advocates alarmed and is raising concerns about whether pizza boxes and six packs are the next to go.

    Weyco Inc., an Okemos-based medical benefits administrator, said its offer of smoking cessation classes and support groups helped 18 to 20 of the company's nearly 200 workers quit smoking over the past 15 months.

    But four others who couldn't _ or wouldn't _ no longer had jobs on Jan. 1.

    "We had told them they had a choice," said Weyco Chief Financial Officer Gary Climes. "We're not saying you can't smoke in your home. We just say you can't smoke and work here."

    Such policies basically say employers can tell workers how to live their lives even in the privacy of their own homes, something they have no business doing, said Lewis Maltby, president of The National Workrights Institute in Princeton, N.J., a part of the American Civil Liberties Union until 2000.

    "If a company said, `We're going to cut down on our health care costs by forbidding anyone from eating at McDonald's,' they could do it," he said. "There are a thousand things about people's private lives that employers don't like for a thousand different reasons."

    Former Weyco receptionist Cara Stiffler of Williamston, one of those who found herself without a job Jan. 1, called Weyco's policy intrusive.

    "I don't believe any employer should be able to come in and tell you what you can do in your home," she said.

    Some companies, while not going as far as Weyco, are trying to lower their health care costs by refusing to hire any more smokers.

    Union Pacific Corp., headquartered in Omaha, Neb., began rejecting smokers' applications in Texas, Idaho, Tennessee, Arkansas, Washington state, Arizona and parts of Kansas and Nebraska last year and hopes to add more states.

    Public affairs director John Bromley said the company estimates it will save $922 annually for each position it fills with a nonsmoker over one who smokes. It hired 5,500 new workers last year and plans to hire 700 this year. About a quarter of the company's 48,000 employees now smoke, and Bromley said it's clear they cost the company more money.

    "Looking at our safety records, (we know that) people who smoke seem to have higher accident rates than nonsmokers," he said. "It's no secret that people who smoke have more health issues than nonsmokers."

    On Jan. 1, Kalamazoo Valley Community College stopped hiring smokers for full-time positions at both its campuses. Part-time staffers who smoke won't be hired for full-time jobs, and the 20 to 25 openings that occur each year among the college's 365 full-time staff positions will go only to nonsmokers.

    "Our No. 1 goal is to reduce our health claims," said Sandy Bohnet, vice president for human resources. "So many diseases can be headed off if people simply pay attention to their health care."

    Twenty-eight states and the District of Columbia protect workers who smoke, saying they can't be discriminated against for that reason.

    Michigan doesn't have such a law, but state Sen. Virg Bernaro has taken up the cause of the former Weyco workers. He plans to introduce a bill banning Michigan employers from firing or refusing to hire workers for legal activities they enjoy on their own time that don't impinge on their work.

    Weyco President Howard Weyers thinks Bernero is on the wrong side, especially since companies are wrestling with ever-higher health care costs.

    "We're doing everything we can ... to get our staff healthier," Weyers said, noting that his company reimburses workers for a portion of health club costs, pays them bonuses for meeting fitness goals and offers fitness classes and a walking trail at its Okemos office.

    "Employers need help in this area. And I just don't think employers' hands should be tied" on how to accomplish that, he said.

    Chris Boyd, an 18-year Weyco employee, said she considered the no-smoking policy drastic when Weyers first announced it. But she signed up for a smoking cessation group a few months later.

    "I wasn't about to put smoking ahead of my job," said Boyd, 37, of Haslett. She had tried once before to break her 10-year, half-pack-a-day habit and said she probably wouldn't have been able to quit if not for the new policy.

    The Society for Human Resource Management in Arlington, Va., found only one human resource manager among 270 surveyed nationally in December that had a formal policy against hiring smokers. About 4 percent said they preferred not to hire smokers, and nearly 5 percent said they charge smokers higher health care premiums, a policy Weyco put in place a year ago.

    Although few companies are copying Weyco's example, "a lot of people are paying attention to this case because it's potentially the edge of a very slippery slope," said Jen Jorgensen, a spokeswoman for the society. "It has raised a lot of eyebrows."

    Maltby said he doesn't have a problem with companies raising health insurance premiums for employees who have unhealthy habits. But he worries about what's next on employers' lists.

    "If employers are going to make the smokers pay a surcharge, they might as well make the deep-sea divers and the motorcycle riders and the Big Mac eaters and the skiers pay a surcharge," he said. "Smoking, drinking, junk food, lack of exercise, unsafe hobbies, unsafe sex _ the list of things many people do is endless."

  2. #2
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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtydawg
    "If employers are going to make the smokers pay a surcharge, they might as well make the deep-sea divers and the motorcycle riders and the Big Mac eaters and the skiers pay a surcharge," he said. "Smoking, drinking, junk food, lack of exercise, unsafe hobbies, unsafe sex _ the list of things many people do is endless."
    Unsafe sex? Wouldn't that put an end to this same sex marriage stuff!

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
    Unsafe sex? Wouldn't that put an end to this same sex marriage stuff!
    Really! Those Michigan liberals better be careful with what they surcharge and/or outlaw!

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    That is an interesting article. It really does seem like smokers need to pick up a larger portion of group health insurance. But, I think then other groups could make arguments for others picking up more as well. It is an interesting argument. I personally can't imagine why anyone would intentionally do that to my air and thier body.

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    The company that started the whole thing is also doing the same thing for overweight people. I wouldnt mind making all at-risk groups pay a little extra, but then you get into the area of "What defines 'at risk?' "

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    Since the share of what I have had to pay for health premiums has gone up six times since I have started this job and the co-pays have increased significantly as well, I do have a strong opinion on this.

    I just had lunch with two of my co-workers. One of them has been to about 6 different cardiologists in the past two years trying to figure out why his heart isn't working properly. I could have told him in two short sentences: 1. Quit eating the gravy smothered chicken fried steak that he was eating. 2. Lose about 50 pounds with proper diet and excercise. Yet, his doctors will not tell him this because that is bad for their business.

    The other gets drunk every night and smokes over 2 packs a day. He is a medical disaster that is waiting to happen. If it hasn't started already.

    Do people have the right to smoke, drink, and eat like sh*t? Sure they do. I even like to tie a good one on from time to time and even smoke a few cigs while I am doing it, but I am getting tired of monetarily supporting other people's medical problems due to their excessive bad habits.

    Personally, I hope more companies start charging higher premimums to the riskier employee/employee family as long as people with "non-self inflicted" health problems can not be discriminated against.

    A good way to determine your risky employees/family would be to go by the army's guidelines as far as weight measurements and have able bodied employees do some sort of PT test to determine fitness level.

    I am serious about all of this. I am sick of it. Personal responsibility is almost dead in this country.

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    Quote Originally Posted by daybreaker2
    The company that started the whole thing is also doing the same thing for overweight people. I wouldnt mind making all at-risk groups pay a little extra, but then you get into the area of "What defines 'at risk?' "
    All of this is a VERY bad idea.

    How long, if this stands, will it be before they can use family history of heart disease and cancer as determining factors? What about second-hand smoke? Ever been around smoke at all? Ever had a Big Mac? Eat popcorn at a movie theater? Have a relative that committed suicide? Have unprotected sex? Are you a type "A" personality? Drink coffee? Tea? Coca cola? DO you drink at least 8 glasses of water a day? Eat your veggies?

    Hey, let's have a look at that DNA to see if we're going to hire you or not.

    I suppose this is just the libertarian in me coming out, but here is where I think both the dems and republicans are WAY off base. Please just leave everyone the hell alone.

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    I'd written out a big long response last night and somehow I guess it never made it. I have a problem with them firing people for smoking at home on their own time. I do not have a problem with them varying the health insurance costs by lifestyle habits. That'd be great incentive for all of us to do better - and we might even live happier, healthier lives as a benefit. I think insurance costs have gone up so much because people look at their costs for medical care as just their share w/o any cause and effect.

    I could see it coming except for the fact that they'd have to charge more for homosexual men because of their lifestyle choice and we know that the ACLU would never go for that.

    Every other kind of insurance charges by risk and past history. How did health insurance get to be so different?

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    How about multiple insurance plans?

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    Quote Originally Posted by daybreaker2
    The company that started the whole thing is also doing the same thing for overweight people. I wouldnt mind making all at-risk groups pay a little extra, but then you get into the area of "What defines 'at risk?' "
    Everyone in America is "at Risk". Not 1 person living in America is excempt from 5-10 risk factors for high blood pressure, cancer, heart disease, low back injuries or accidental trauma (ie: car accident, skiing injury, etc.) The employees will win this case or the whole health care industry and who rates what care will have to be totally redone.

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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    Quote Originally Posted by markay714
    I'd written out a big long response last night and somehow I guess it never made it. I have a problem with them firing people for smoking at home on their own time. I do not have a problem with them varying the health insurance costs by lifestyle habits. That'd be great incentive for all of us to do better - and we might even live happier, healthier lives as a benefit. I think insurance costs have gone up so much because people look at their costs for medical care as just their share w/o any cause and effect.

    I could see it coming except for the fact that they'd have to charge more for homosexual men because of their lifestyle choice and we know that the ACLU would never go for that.

    Every other kind of insurance charges by risk and past history. How did health insurance get to be so different?
    The biggest reason for increases in health insurance premiums over the last 10 years is because the record number of people who depend on medicare and medicaid for coverage. These reimburse at about 10-20% cost historically and private insurance holders make up the difference by increasing their premiums. It has very little to do with how healthy you are and more to do with how many recieve government insurance plans and how much the government will reimburse for a procedure or drug.

  12. #12
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    Re: To smoke or not to smoke...

    I say fire all the smoking bastards.....Why should they get a smoke break a few times through out the day and the workers that are not addicted to nicotine get screwed. If it were up to me I would never hire a smoker. If you let an addiction control your life and interfear with your job, then your worthless in my book. People are starting to catch on. More and more of non smokers are starting to claim they smoke just to get that break. Hey lets give them a month too. Thats kinda like oppression or depression.

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