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Thread: Schiavo

  1. #16
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    Re: Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by arkansasbob
    what is a pvs?
    I think it's permanently vegetative state. I had to sign a pvs statement for a surgery not too long ago. I think it's hard to argue that for this person. It has been said that she recognizes people, has moods based on environment, and has even said a few words.

    As far as the federal government stepping in, I'm not sure I like that it went that way, but you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess...

  2. #17
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    Re: Schiavo

    I too am pro-life. However, I also believe that there are a lot of human decisions to be made in life that are between an individual and his or her God - whatever God they choose to embrace. One of the most quoted Commandments is "Thou shalt not kill". That is a moral law. In this case, it is not a legal issue, but an issue between the guardian and his God! I have lost a number of friends and both my parents who suffered greatly in their last weeks and months. And in these cases, everyone agrees what a "blessing" it was for them to pass on to a better life in a much better place. If it were my wife, I would feel the same way, and that is the reason we have both prepared living wills. Neither of us want to live like that for the rest of our lives. It is an emotional drain as well as a fiscal drain, and it is a full time commitment to the care giver.

    It if was my dog, I would have had it put down years ago. Why do we not allow humans the same humane treatment we allow pets?

    I don't intend to sound crass, but how many of those on this board would rather spend years in a vegitative state than go to the great mansion in the sky? Certainly not me!

  3. #18
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    Re: Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by TechFan2
    I don't intend to sound crass, but how many of those on this board would rather spend years in a vegitative state than go to the great mansion in the sky? Certainly not me!
    i'd rather go to that mansion in the sky now, if that were God's will for me, but it is not my place (or any other person's) to decide when it's time. He will call me home when my work down here is done.

  4. #19
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    Re: Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by TechFan2
    One of the most quoted Commandments is "Thou shalt not kill". That is a moral law. In this case, it is not a legal issue, but an issue between the guardian and his God!
    it is a legal issue because no one should be allowed to starve someone to death. taking a loved one off life support when they have absolutely no independent biological functions is one thing but to take away someone's source of nourishment brings up completely news LEGAL issues. this man is not allowing her to die (taking her off life support)...he is causing her death by STARVATION and dehydation. last time i checked, causing someone's death was most certainly a legal issue.

    and let me just say that had she written out a living will this would not be a legal issue (at least not one involving legal contreversy) because she would have statedthat she did not want to live via a feeding tube. but as it stands now we only have the word of the husband who wants it removed and the family who doesn't. i wish that she had a living will so that she would not have to live this way, but she doesn't and there's no way to know what she truly wanted...like what was said earlier in this tread, if we have to err we should do it on the side of life.

  5. #20
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    Re: Schiavo

    My wife and I have this stuff written down...I wouldn't want her to have to GUESS at what I might want.

    Schivo, the husband, is a real prince...he remembers 7 years after her heart attack that she didn't want a feeding tube!
    Last edited by CARTEK; 03-21-2005 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Spelling...what else!
    I'm an asshole! What's your excuse?

  6. #21
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    Re: Schiavo

    Persistent Vegetative State (PVS). Jude may straighten me out later, but I thought this was when a person would no longer respond to external stimuli. They say that Ms. Schiavo's condition is PVS, but her family says that she responds. We've all surely seen the video where she follows the balloon with her head. One of her doctors that was interviewed today on a right leaning radio show says that she responds very well. And, it seems to be up in the air about whether or not her "husband" would benefit financially from her death. Either way there is a conflict of interests that should be considered. Did you hear that he withdrew her family's visitation rights yesterday...he's a real class act.
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  7. #22
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    Re: Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin
    Persistent Vegetative State (PVS). Jude may straighten me out later, but I thought this was when a person would no longer respond to external stimuli. They say that Ms. Schiavo's condition is PVS, but her family says that she responds. We've all surely seen the video where she follows the balloon with her head. One of her doctors that was interviewed today on a right leaning radio show says that she responds very well. And, it seems to be up in the air about whether or not her "husband" would benefit financially from her death. Either way there is a conflict of interests that should be considered. Did you hear that he withdrew her family's visitation rights yesterday...he's a real class act.
    something is up with that guy...there is something moere than what we're hearing.

  8. #23
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    Re: Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by sik-m-boi
    and let me just say that had she written out a living will this would not be a legal issue (at least not one involving legal contreversy) because she would have statedthat she did not want to live via a feeding tube.
    I am sure that if you elected to compose your own living will, you could insert the presence or absence of a "feeding tube". However, in every pre-printed living will I have ever seen, they state that you do not wish to be kept alive by "any artificial means". That would include any intravaneous 'feeding tubes'.

  9. #24
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    Re: Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin
    Did you hear that he withdrew her family's visitation rights yesterday...he's a real class act.
    I saw that. This just reinforces to me that he is in this for selfish reasons. If not, why NOT let his wife's family be around her for her dying days? I know they don't get along and its been this way for 7-8 years (note he didn't remember Terri's wishes about the feeding tube for 6-7 years), but where is the compassion? It appears to me that he put her in a coffin when he decided it was going on longer than he expected and was ready to move on with life. He just didn't want all the lack of cooperation from Terri's family.

  10. #25
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    Re: Schiavo

    I think the rub is...

    I bet Florida has a law that prevents you from divorcing someone in the state Terri is in, so the next best thing for a guy that likes to screw around (the two illegitimate kids prove this point) is to let her die a slow and even more painful death! He's the brown stuff you try to avoid getting on your boots when working in the feedlot!
    I'm an asshole! What's your excuse?

  11. #26
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    Re: Schiavo

    http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/20/Ta...e_down__.shtml

    Hey guys,
    Found this on drudge. I think the husband has a good point.

  12. #27
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    Re: Schiavo

    Just for some info....

    A persistent vegetative state (commonly, but incorrectly, referred to as "brain-death") sometimes follows a coma. Individuals in such a state have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands.

    In my understanding, Terri is not showing neurological reflexes. The doctors have confirmed that she is in a permanent egetative state. I personally believe that this is a private matter and the govenment should not be involved. This is between a husband, a wife, and God. I would be very angry if I made a legal decision for my wife, and b/c someone didn't like it, the government jumped in. I think sometimes people forget that death is natural. This is not an easy case, but I believe that it is the husbands decision to make, like it or not.

  13. #28
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    Re: Schiavo

    The problem I think everyone has, bjude, is that the husband didn't remember his wife's wishes for 7 years after she was this way. And, now, with a common-law wife and two out of wedlock children, he just lacks the believability to make such a decision on the basis of her wishes. Why would he NOT remember it earlier? If I truly thought this was Terri's wish (written down or spoken to her parents or brother or sister too ahead of the illness), I wouldn't have a problem with this whole thing. I don't believe that for a minute.

    I think the lesson learned for everyone is decide on your wishes, inform your family, and WRITE IT DOWN. That's tough. I've thought about this for quite some time and so far haven't advanced beyond I'd as soon trust my family to make that decision with the information they have at the time. I know they're pro-life as I am. But, after reading the messages here, I've come to the conclusion that is a tough thing to do to your family, so I'm working on Step 2. Hopefully, this will be a situation not oft repeated.

  14. #29
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    Re: Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by bjude64
    http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/20/Ta...e_down__.shtml

    Hey guys,
    Found this on drudge. I think the husband has a good point.
    i disagree that he has a point. starving someone to death is not a "private matter." why do the bush brothers need to visit her to know that it is wrong to deprive her of food? why is he so determined to kill her all of a sudden?

    i also have a question about pvs: has anyone diagnosed of being in a pvs ever improved? i really don't think it is relevent in this case, but i am just curious.

  15. #30
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    Re: Schiavo

    Maybe the husband let her live for this long for the sake of her parents who have some hope that she might recover. It could be that he finally decided that it's time to let her go regardless of her parents' wishes. Right now he is being crucified in the media. I've even heard theories that he is responsible for her current condition with no proof to support that stance.

    I'm torn on this issue. As a conservative, I would like to err on the side of life and let her live. I personally could never do to my wife what he is doing to his. However, also as a conservative, I STRONGLY believe that the government should not be interfering in the matters of private citizens. What's to stop the government from stepping into the personal lives of citizens in the future when those people make decisions that the legislators disagree with?

    The fact is that we don't know what her wishes are. She is an adult, and therefore was responsible for her own welfare and making sure that her last wishes are carried out. When that doesn't happen, the law is clear that life/death decisions pass along to the spouse. Until we know (and, more importantly, can prove) that her husband is breaking a law, the government has no legal reason to intercede, no matter how disgusting or reprehensible we find his decision to be. If you want to prevent this from happening again, change the laws.

    This country was built by those who believed that the nation was greater than one person. That's why people have laid down their lives for this country time and time again. I feel for Terri Schiavo, her husband, and her family, and I can't imagine what they are going through. That said, I'm also not sure that one person's life is justification for the federal government to overstep it's bounds. That sets a dangerous precedent in my opinion. I don't know what to do.
    Last edited by bad_man; 03-22-2005 at 09:40 AM.

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