New WAC members

[#1techfan]

Unnn, in a word, NO

Being in the Sun Belt didnt stop CUSA from giving UNT a serious look last time. CUSA did contact UNT during the last go around. Ask PMG about the sports counsutatant named Chuck something? CUSA hired him for their expansion and what was one of the schools he contacted? You guess it UNT. What kept UNT from being invited wasn't our competition level in the Sun Belt, It was our lack of or inadequate facilities and the lack of a baseball team. Both of those shortcomings are being addressed right now.

I don't know how many ways I have to say it for #1TechFan to understand, but I'll try it another way. SunBelt Membership will not keep UNT from being considered for CUSA membership. You say we'd improve our stature by playing against better competition in the WAC. I don't think so. In order to pay for the athletic program and the outrageous travel budget of the WAC, UNT would have to schedule more body bag games just for the money they pay. So our 3-4 out of conference games would have to be against BCS jaugernauts on the road, and never get a home game in return. Just to pay the travel budget to a bunch of schools in the Mountain and Pacific time zones that local fans don't care about or have any connection with. So what kind of reputation do you build with that? Getting killed in body bag games and getting so beat up you don't fare well in conference games? And where do you get with the budget, you're spending all your money on operating exspenses. You've got nothing to put into capital improvements i.e. facilities. So where are you when the next conference comes looking at you? Not winning cause you getting killed in body bag games, no facilities cause you don't have the budget to build, but heck- let's let em in anyway because they were playing in the WAC? Yeah Right!

UNT has already seen this scenario play out with our Big West membership. We are just now finishing up on the contracts to play all those body bag games. Playing in the Sun Belt allows us some sanity in the budget, allows us to schedule regional rivialries for home & home OOC games, allows us to BUILD, which in the long run will help in recruiting, which translates into more wins.

We have to look to the future and the best way to improve our situation. We cant look at the past, or even the present. Conference strength is a very fluid thing. As I pointed out in a previous post, how a conferecne is viewed changes quickly. Look at the history of the WAC and CUSA. Last year the Belt passed the MAC in the Sagrin ratings Who knows where the Belt will go in the next few years. Especially if Troy and UNT continue to improve and win.

All I'm saying is we've tried the path you are on...It didn't work. Playing in the WAC (or Big West II) would mean having to sacrifice all of the things that are allowing us to build our program, build our fan base, build new facilities. It's just not worth it. In the long run we improve our chances at gaining membership to another conference by playing in the Belt.

I understand what ya'll are saying so don't act like a douchebag when I say something about conference competition. I htink that that when a conference looks at a school, they don't just look at facilities and the # of programs, they also look at continued success against successful programs. I think that as far as a conference move goes UNT may get into CUSA in the next go around but I think that if ya'll were consistantly playing a tougher schedule year-in and year-out then your success would be taken into consideration and I believe that your stock would rise in the conference's eyes. Now I'm not saying that ya'll should have come to the WAC when it was offered to ya'll. If your adm. thought it better to stay in the Sun Belt then that was their decision and no matter if you agree with it or not you have to live with it. With the addition of Troy to the SBC, the SBC's stock will rise some but I don't believe that it will rise significantly enough to take up for the other schools that are in the SBC (ULM, Ark St., the Florida schools, etc.) Now I know that ya'll think that the Florida schools are so great but come on now honestly they aren't that good and they surely don't play though competition in their OOC schedule, and in my opinion their in-conference schedule either. What I am trying to say is that I think facilities, ticket sales, and # of atheltic programs play a role in team selection to a new conference, but I think that strength of competition plays a pretty big role in the team's selecion to a conference.

[tylerdawg]

I should hope so! Yes, the SBC is up and coming, but it'll be a somewhat slow climb. Within another five years, we should be a nice competitive conference. When CUSA comes-a-calling, North Texas will jump at the chance. Then again, a lot depends on the shape of CUSA if it loses members again. You notice I said CUSA will contact us?

So CUSA is more attractive to ya'll than the SBC, right?

[Overcusser]

"douchebag"????? Didn't mean to be taken that way, but if you want to start name calling ....eh nevermind... not worth it.

You asked if we needed a more competitive conference to get a serious look from CUSA. My answer was NO, and I gave empiracal evidence to back up my point not just an opinion. If you think that's being a douchebag than so be it.

BTW- #1TechFan. where's that list of those "well known engineering alumni" from tech. Still think UNT as "nobody" for an alumni?????

[Overcusser]

So CUSA is more attractive to ya'll than the SBC, right?

Definately. I don't think anyone has said they wouldn't take the jump to CUSA if offered. Personally Im not trying to make the Sun Belt into something it's not, Currently it's the second-worst conference football-wise. Im just saying there are reasons for us staying put because in the long run it will help make us more attractive to another conference like CUSA.

[Bigdog13]

Unnn, in a word, NO

Being in the Sun Belt didnt stop CUSA from giving UNT a serious look last time. CUSA did contact UNT during the last go around. Ask PMG about the sports counsutatant named Chuck something? CUSA hired him for their expansion and what was one of the schools he contacted? You guess it UNT. What kept UNT from being invited wasn't our competition level in the Sun Belt, It was our lack of or inadequate facilities and the lack of a baseball team. Both of those shortcomings are being addressed right now.

I don't know how many ways I have to say it for #1TechFan to understand, but I'll try it another way. SunBelt Membership will not keep UNT from being considered for CUSA membership. You say we'd improve our stature by playing against better competition in the WAC. I don't think so. So what kind of reputation do you build with that? Getting killed in body bag games and getting so beat up you don't fare well in conference games? And where do you get with the budget, you're spending all your money on operating exspenses. You've got nothing to put into capital improvements i.e. facilities. So where are you when the next conference comes looking at you? Not winning cause you getting killed in body bag games, no facilities cause you don't have the budget to build, but heck- let's let em in anyway because they were playing in the WAC? Yeah Right!

UNT has already seen this scenario play out with our Big West membership. We are just now finishing up on the contracts to play all those body bag games. Playing in the Sun Belt allows us some sanity in the budget, allows us to schedule regional rivialries for home & home OOC games, allows us to BUILD, which in the long run will help in recruiting, which translates into more wins.

We have to look to the future and the best way to improve our situation. We cant look at the past, or even the present. Conference strength is a very fluid thing. As I pointed out in a previous post, how a conferecne is viewed changes quickly. Look at the history of the WAC and CUSA. Last year the Belt passed the MAC in the Sagrin ratings Who knows where the Belt will go in the next few years. Especially if Troy and UNT continue to improve and win.

All I'm saying is we've tried the path you are on...It didn't work. Playing in the WAC (or Big West II) would mean having to sacrifice all of the things that are allowing us to build our program, build our fan base, build new facilities. It's just not worth it. In the long run we improve our chances at gaining membership to another conference by playing in the Belt.

"In order to pay for the athletic program and the outrageous travel budget of the WAC, UNT would have to schedule more body bag games just for the money they pay. So our 3-4 out of conference games would have to be against BCS jaugernauts on the road, and never get a home game in return. Just to pay the travel budget to a bunch of schools in the Mountain and Pacific time zones that local fans don't care about or have any connection with."

---------Out of curiosity do you know the difference in travel dollars spent last year between say ULL and Tech?


...........About 100K.

[tylerdawg]

Definately. I don't think anyone has said they wouldn't take the jump to CUSA if offered. Personally Im not trying to make the Sun Belt into something it's not, Currently it's the second-worst conference football-wise. Im just saying there are reasons for us staying put because in the long run it will help make us more attractive to another conference like CUSA.

Well, most TECH fans feel the same way you do about the SBC. Tech and UNT are just taking 2 different routes to try and acheive the same goal.

[DeepGreen]

Well, most TECH fans feel the same way you do about the SBC. Tech and UNT are just taking 2 different routes to try and acheive the same goal.

And nothing would please me more than if both our universities ended up in CUSA at the same time.

[DeepGreen]

Now I know that ya'll think that the Florida schools are so great but come on now honestly they aren't that good and they surely don't play though competition in their OOC schedule, and in my opinion their in-conference schedule either. What I am trying to say is that I think facilities, ticket sales, and # of atheltic programs play a role in team selection to a new conference, but I think that strength of competition plays a pretty big role in the team's selecion to a conference.

This season Florida Atlantic plays:
@Kansas
Oklahoma State (in Miami, Fl)
Minnesota
Louisville

Florida International plays:
Kansas State
Texas Tech

FAU's OOC schedule looks pretty damn good in my book, and FIU is such an infant in 1A that I'm surprised they have those two teams on their schedule.

For the record, I wasn't happy that the two Florida schools landed in the SBC. But to keep the conference going, we had to suck it up and invite them. Just like the talk on the WAC boards about bringing in Montana(good addition BTW), Portland State, or Cal-Davis. Come on, what's the difference between those schools joining the WAC and our two Florida newbies? The WAC would do it if the had to. Rather if they wanted to keep the conference afloat. This assumes you lose a couple of more schools in the next round of changes, if there is a next round for the WAC. Who knows?

[#1techfan]

This season Florida Atlantic plays:
@Kansas
Oklahoma State (in Miami, Fl)
Minnesota
Louisville

Florida International plays:
Kansas State
Texas Tech

FAU's OOC schedule looks pretty damn good in my book, and FIU is such an infant in 1A that I'm surprised they have those two teams on their schedule.

Well I was mistaken when I mentioned the team. I meant to talk bring up FIU not FAU. I get those two confused sometimes. Now if you look at FIU's schedule, they didn't play anyone last season, so don't talk about how good they are and how well they did when most of the teams they played most people have never heard of before.

And Overcusser, you stated that the SBC is the 2nd worst conference in the NCAA, my question is what team do you think is the WORST team in the NCAA?

[Overcusser]

And Overcusser, you stated that the SBC is the 2nd worst conference in the NCAA, my question is what team do you think is the WORST team in the NCAA?

According to Jeff Sagarin's power rankings it was the MAC. Sagarins final ranking had the MAC as the worst Division 1A conference with a rating of 55.69. MAC has a couple of good teams on top in Bowling Green and Northern Illinois but the bottom of the leauge was REALLY bad. Buffalo 2-9, Ball State 2-9, UCF went 0-11, West. Mich went 1-10. And overall the MAC had much weaker schedules accross the conference.

Sagarin's final rankings for 2004 D1A

CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS

1 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 77.91 78.09 ( 2) 11
2 PAC-10 (A) = 77.84 78.89 ( 1) 10
3 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 76.98 76.98 ( 4) 2
4 BIG 12 (A) = 76.42 77.08 ( 3) 12
5 BIG TEN (A) = 75.63 75.29 ( 5) 11
6 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 74.13 74.31 ( 6) 12
7 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 72.08 72.91 ( 7) 8
8 BIG EAST (A) = 71.98 71.56 ( 8) 7
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 67.40 68.40 ( 9) 10
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 65.66 66.75 ( 10) 11
11 SUN BELT (A) = 60.24 60.46 ( 12) 9
12 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 55.69 56.35 ( 15) 14

[DeepGreen]

Well I was mistaken when I mentioned the team. I meant to talk bring up FIU not FAU. I get those two confused sometimes. Now if you look at FIU's schedule, they didn't play anyone last season, so don't talk about how good they are and how well they did when most of the teams they played most people have never heard of before.

And Overcusser, you stated that the SBC is the 2nd worst conference in the NCAA, my question is what team do you think is the WORST team in the NCAA?

Who has said that FIU is a good team? Who? No one that I can think of. Hell, I've never even seen them play. Since they are so new to 1A ball, it would be a little difficult for them to come up with the ultimate schedule. Give 'em a break! Most SBC fans that talk about FAU and FIU think that about the "future" of those two programs. You know like every team coming out of Florida is going to be the next national champion.

[#1techfan]

Who has said that FIU is a good team? Who? No one that I can think of. Hell, I've never even seen them play. Since they are so new to 1A ball, it would be a little difficult for them to come up with the ultimate schedule. Give 'em a break! Most SBC fans that talk about FAU and FIU think that about the "future" of those two programs. You know like every team coming out of Florida is going to be the next national champion.

Well ya'll have been talking about how the SBC is a great conference and ya'll keep defending it when the whole competition talk comes up so I figured ya'll thought that the two Florida schools where really good. Just b/c a team comes out of florida it doesn't mean they are going to be great.

But I guess ya'll think that FAU is a really good team seeing as how they beat UNT 20-13 last year. Come on now ya'll are saying that they are the future of the SBC well it looks like they have the upperhand on the PRESENT SBC if you ask. Since ya'll go out and beat up on the lowly SBC teams each year and then FAU came in and beat ya'll. What happened there?

[oledawg66]

I htink that that when a conference looks at a school, they don't just look at facilities and the # of programs, they also look at continued success against successful programs.

#1 - I hate to but in, but I don't think that has any bearing at all with the way cusa does business. All you have to do is look at their last class. SMU?? Rice?? Tulsa?? UTEP?? I think cusa looks at the size of your market, and your commitment to athletics including facilities upgrades, marketing, etc. Actually winning football games seems to be the last thing on their shopping list.

[#1techfan]

#1 - I hate to but in, but I don't think that has any bearing at all with the way cusa does business. All you have to do is look at their last class. SMU?? Rice?? Tulsa?? UTEP?? I think cusa looks at the size of your market, and your commitment to athletics including facilities upgrades, marketing, etc. Actually winning football games seems to be the last thing on their shopping list.

Yea when you mention that it does make sense that they don't look at success of their program and games won. I guess all CUSA cares about is if you have a TV market, and it doesn't matter if you lose 6 games a year. Or have a losing schedule and you just so happen to get lucky enough to be in a crappy conference and get to go to a bowl game.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Well ya'll have been talking about how the SBC is a great conference and ya'll keep defending it when the whole competition talk comes up so I figured ya'll thought that the two Florida schools where really good. Just b/c a team comes out of florida it doesn't mean they are going to be great.

But I guess ya'll think that FAU is a really good team seeing as how they beat UNT 20-13 last year. Come on now ya'll are saying that they are the future of the SBC well it looks like they have the upperhand on the PRESENT SBC if you ask. Since ya'll go out and beat up on the lowly SBC teams each year and then FAU came in and beat ya'll. What happened there?

I am trying to research on this board or ours where any of us have said our 4 year old football conference is a great conference. It is not a great conference. It is a young football conference that has potential for growth in the footprint of which it is located.

FAU beat an upper echelon WAC team (UH) the week before they beat us. FAU Coach Howie Schnellenberger had close to 40 seniors on last year's team and a group he had probably piece-mealed, red-shirted, transfers who wanted to play out their collegiate elgibility for the semi-legend coach, etc, etc, etc,

All those unusual numbers of seniors for any non BCS school have graduated and FAU will be back down to earth this Fall.