Bush sets a new low

[saltydawg]

It took 2 seconds to look this up clown.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1042788&page=1

Wow, Tyler, the article proves my point that there is not a shortage of refineries in the US. They are all operating at capacity which is great for the owners of those refineries because they are maximzing their profits. A real shortage would be gasoline prices going up faster than the price of crude and you have not shown that, have you. The article also mentions that we currently have to import 10% of our gasoline. However, the article does not say that worldwide refinery capacity is at its maximum level.

Sure, let's build another heavy crude refinery. Valero did in 1976 and almost went into bankruptcy in 1984.

Why don't you find out when was the last time a refinery was built somewhere in the world and what the worldwide refinery utilization rate is.

Like I said earlier, I would much rather import gasoline and leave the air pollution in some other country.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

You are one lost puppy SD. Tyler out.

[saltydawg]

You are one lost puppy SD. Tyler out.

Hardly. I guess I will have to get you some hard data. Hard to believe that you would stoop so low as to rely on an ABC News story about some "refinery" in Yuma AZ.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/28/D8C95DE00.html
Only a few of the quotes.


Katrina Targeting U.S. Oil Operations
Aug 28 8:28 PM US/Eastern



By JUSTIN BACHMAN
AP Business Writer


NEW YORK


With crude oil prices near record levels, a hurricane targeted the heart of America's oil and refinery operations Sunday, shutting down an estimated 1 million barrels of refining capacity and sharply curbing offshore production throughout the region. Katrina, a Category 5 storm expected to strike New Orleans early Monday, was churning through the Gulf of Mexico. The area is crucial to the nation's energy infrastructure _ offshore oil and gas production, import terminals, pipeline networks and numerous refining operations throughout southern Louisiana and Mississippi.





The U.S. has ample crude oil supplies, even if major hurricane destruction trims Gulf oil output and foreign imports, but refining capacity is extraordinarily tight. As a result, prices for gasoline, heating oil, jet fuel and other products have flirted with records and could go even higher this week. "If this thing knocks out significant quantities of refining capacity ... we're going to be in deep, dark trouble," said Ed Silliere, vice president of risk management at Energy Merchant LLC in New York.

[Bill Pup60]

Hardly. I guess I will have to get you some hard data. Hard to believe that you would stoop so low as to rely on an ABC News story about some "refinery" in Yuma AZ.

That would be novel.

[saltydawg]

NEWS RELEASE AUGUST 2003

Refinery Air Pollution Control Market To Double By 2009

The world market for refinery air pollution control equipment will grow from $465 million in 2003 to $807 million in 2008. This is the conclusion reached in the new McIlvaine online report, Refinery Air Pollution Control Markets. There are three main drivers. One is the retrofit market caused by past violations of the U.S. Clean Air Act. Another is the decreasing sulfur content requirements in fuel. The third is the expanding worldwide refining capacity. The retrofit market will largely be in the U.S. and in Europe, whereas the new capacity opportunities will be in Asia and the Middle East. A significant new opportunity has risen in Iraq as a result of the recent change in government.

The most significant air emission sources in oil refineries are catalytic or thermal cracking units, catalytic reformer units, sulfur recovery plants, storage vessels, fluid coking units wastewater streams, cooling towers, equipment leaks, blowdown systems, vacuum distillation units, steam boilers, process furnaces, process heaters, compressor engines, barge or ship loading, and gasoline loading racks specifically located at petroleum refineries.

A number of refineries in the U.S. expanded or modified their operations without notifying EPA under a provision called New Source Review. Subsequent litigation with some 40 percent of the refineries resulted in consent decrees stipulating precisely the installation of certain equipment on specific dates. Other refineries indicate that they will voluntarily settle violations. This has created a multi billion dollar market for electrostatic precipitators (ESP), selective catalytic reduction (SCR) systems, selective non catalytic reduction (SNCR) systems, low NOx burners (LNB), flue gas desulfurization systems (FGD), tail gas scrubbing systems (TGS), and continuous emissions monitors (CEMs).

European Union Directive 96/61 requires that oil refineries must adopt Integrated Pollution Prevention and Control (IPPC) in the 2003-2007 timeframe. The directive requires use of BAT (Best Available Techniques) which can be procedures, techniques, technologies, maintenance standards, etc. that have been proven to reduce air pollution from oil refineries cost-effectively. The BAT standards do not mandate the chosen method of air emission reduction so long as the method adopted meets the emission limit.

Substantial modification of refineries in the U.S. and elsewhere is being undertaken to lower the sulfur level in the fuel. This results in a substantial opportunity for the sale of tail gas scrubbers.

Worldwide crude oil distillation refining capacity was about 81.5 million barrels per day at the beginning of 2000. To meet the projected growth in international oil demand worldwide, refining capacity will have to increase by more than 50 million barrels per day by 2020. Substantial growth in distillation capacity is expected in the Middle East, Central and South America, and especially in the Asia Pacific region. Refiners in North America and Europe are expected to continue improving product quality and enhancing the usefulness of the heavier portion of the barrel through investment in downstream capacity. Likewise, future investments by developing countries are also expected to include more advanced configurations designed to meet the anticipated increase in demand for lighter products, especially transportation fuels.

There has been substantial consolidation of the industry in the U.S. Smaller refineries facing the substantial cost of upgrading to reduce sulfur have opted to sell to larger companies.

[saltydawg]

"The U.S. has ample crude oil supplies, even if major hurricane destruction trims Gulf oil output and foreign imports, but refining capacity is extraordinarily tight. As a result, prices for gasoline, heating oil, jet fuel and other products have flirted with records and could go even higher this week. "If this thing knocks out significant quantities of refining capacity ... we're going to be in deep, dark trouble," said Ed Silliere, vice president of risk management at Energy Merchant LLC in New York."

No one is denying that our refineries are not operating at 100% capacity. That is what the industry wants because that is where their profit margins are highest!! However, the price of distilled products is directly tied to the price of crude oil. If this hurricane knocks out some refineries in Louisisana it will lead to short-term price increases before the market regains balance by increasing imports but that is not to say that there is a shortage of refineries in the USA because those refineries will come back on line. The major oil companies COULD build more refineries in the USA IF they wanted to. They don't.

BTW, in the early 90's foreign countries bought a number of older, closed refineries in the US. They tooked them apart, crated the parts, and shipped them overseas. There are still many closed refineries in the US. Those sites are still permitted for refineries. The only problem is that they are pollution nightmares and the EPA says that the sites have to be clean-up before any new operations begin.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

I tell you what SALTY. You stick to educating the kids of N.Louisiana (heaven forbid) and I'll stick to my business of Oil and Gas. Deal?

[johnnylightnin]

I tell you what SALTY. You stick to educating the kids of N.Louisiana (heaven forbid) and I'll stick to my business of Oil and Gas. Deal?

I think you got the wrong liberal Tyler.

[cgraves562]

under 40% job approval rating for the first time. Its going to continue to drop. Heck, I have even noticed that many longtime W supporters on this board have slacked off their support, Considerably.

Have a great weekend!

My support has not slacked a bit!! I still consider him to be one of the greatest presidents we have ever had! I proudly sport my W sticker on my car!

[saltydawg]

HPCL plans new refinery in Vizag
Saturday, 13 August , 2005, 16:04
New Delhi: State-run oil major Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Ltd plans to set up a new 15 million tonne export-oriented refinery at Visakhaptnam in Andhra Pradesh at an investment of about Rs 16,000 crore by 2011-12.

"Our existing 7.5 million tonne per annum Vizag refinery has space constraints and we cannot expand it beyond a certain capacity. We have plans to create an export-oriented refinery some 30-35 k away from the existing Vizag refinery," HPCL Chairman and Managing Director M B Lall said.

The company has approached the Andhra Pradesh government to allot 2,500 acres of land in the proposed Special Economic Zone for the new refinery.

Lall said HPCL will implement the project through a subsidiary and will seek foreign partners for building the refinery. The equity structure in the new refinery is similar to the one proposed for the nine million tonne Bhatinda refinery.

HPCL and the foreign partner will have 26 per cent stake each in the subsidiary while the rest 48 per cent would be offered to the public through an IPO.

Lall said four global oil giants - British Petroleum, Totalfina ELf of France, Malaysia's Petronas and Saudi Aramco have evinced interest in partnering with HPCL for building the Rs 12,000 crore Bhatinda refinery project.

"We are in advanced stages of talks with the four firms and we expect to take a decision within two months," he said.

HPCL, which owns a six million tonne refinery in Mumbai and some 6,800 petrol stations across the country, also plans to set up a refinery in Barmer district of Rajasthan where Cairn Energy of UK has found over one billion barrels of oil reserves.

[saltydawg]

Here's another refinery being built. Note the cost and time before operations. I could post more but you get the idea.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Brazil Refinery to Be Operational by 2011

All Associated Press News
SAO PAULO, Brazil (AP) - A new multibillion dollar refinery in Brazil that will process crude oil from Venezuela and Brazil should be up and running by the end of 2010 or in early 2011, Brazil's state-owned oil company said Monday.

However, no decision has been made yet on the exact location of the refinery, said Sergio Gabrielli, chief executive of Petroleo Brasileiro SA.

Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez has said it will be built in northeastern Pernambuco state, the native state of Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. Gabrielli would confirm only that the refinery will be in northeastern Brazil.

The refinery will process about 150,000 barrels of crude oil daily and will cost between US$2 billion (euro1.6 billion) and US$2.5 billion (euro2 billion) to build, Petrobras has said.

The project will be a joint venture with Venezuela's state-oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela SA.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

As I have already stated Salty, "you stick to educating the kids of N.Louisiana (heaven forbid) and I'll stick to my business of Oil and Gas. Deal?

There are so many problems with your "arguments" on this issue that it would take a week to set you straight. And in all honesty you're not worth it (personally maybe yes...but on this subject.. NO). Nuff said. BYE!

[tylerdawg]

"The U.S. has ample crude oil supplies, even if major hurricane destruction trims Gulf oil output and foreign imports, but refining capacity is extraordinarily tight. As a result, prices for gasoline, heating oil, jet fuel and other products have flirted with records and could go even higher this week. "If this thing knocks out significant quantities of refining capacity ... we're going to be in deep, dark trouble," said Ed Silliere, vice president of risk management at Energy Merchant LLC in New York."

No one is denying that our refineries are not operating at 100% capacity. That is what the industry wants because that is where their profit margins are highest!! However, the price of distilled products is directly tied to the price of crude oil. If this hurricane knocks out some refineries in Louisisana it will lead to short-term price increases before the market regains balance by increasing imports but that is not to say that there is a shortage of refineries in the USA because those refineries will come back on line. The major oil companies COULD build more refineries in the USA IF they wanted to. They don't.

BTW, in the early 90's foreign countries bought a number of older, closed refineries in the US. They tooked them apart, crated the parts, and shipped them overseas. There are still many closed refineries in the US. Those sites are still permitted for refineries. The only problem is that they are pollution nightmares and the EPA says that the sites have to be clean-up before any new operations begin.

The oil companies meet ZERO resistance from foreign governments to build refineries. The USA GOVERNMENT has made the decision to be difficult to do business with......oil companies are moving operations to places that welcome them. THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM FOR OUR ECONOMY. It is not getting any better but is getting worse.

[saltydawg]

The oil companies meet ZERO resistance from foreign governments to build refineries. The USA GOVERNMENT has made the decision to be difficult to do business with......oil companies are moving operations to places that welcome them. THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM FOR OUR ECONOMY. It is not getting any better but is getting worse.

I agree with the first part of your statement. However, I would much rather import gasoline and export air pollution. The Petroleum Age is getting close to its peak and we need to lead the world in developing the next energy matrix that will power the world's transportation systems after we have consumed all the easily accessible oil.