Gays "persecuted" in the U.S.? If you are going to use that term that loosely, everyone has been persecuted at one time or another.Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Gays "persecuted" in the U.S.? If you are going to use that term that loosely, everyone has been persecuted at one time or another.
If a mayor were to try to exclude a business because of its pro-gay politics, what would be the constitutional basis for preventing such activity?
Stop being a dimwhit."States imposing a requirement that public office holders believe in a diety" Name one. or even name where this has happened in the last 50 years. This doesn't happen!
Go to page 117 on this link. It is the Mississippi Constitution.
http://www.sos.ms.gov/links/ed_pubs/...nstitution.pdf
It states "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."
Atheists in South Carolina and Maryland have been excluded from the most basic public office roles (inlcuding notary public) because they had enough integrity to admit that they did not believe in a Supreme Being. In the first Maryland case, the state discriminated against an atheist and told him that he could not be appointed. The atheist filed his case in court and lost. Appealed and lost. When the U.S. Supreme Court heard the case, they said that the Maryland Constitution violated the atheist's 1st Amendment rights. Despite this clear Supreme Court precedent (Torcasa v. Watson), another state (South Carolina) thought they could get away with doing the same thing. Fortunately, the atheist was able to get relief at a lower court level, but was still persecuted. Nevertheless, states like Mississippi still have not changed their Constitution.
Christians can come up with all sorts of reasons to justify the persecution - johnnylightnin basically just proved that - but it is unconstitutional, immoral, and unAmerican.
Last edited by Guisslapp; 07-26-2012 at 11:45 AM.
Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
“It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”
I didn't say it was okay. Just said it isn't a clear violation of the anti-establishment clause.
Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
“It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”
Ray, you side with Fundamentalist Southern Baptist in the Bible Belt. You do not speak for all Christians, any more than I speak for you. I have no doubt that history and when I reach those gates of heaven, I will find that I am on the right side of this issue.
Being denied basic civil rights is hardly a "loose" use of the term "persecute."
Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
“It’s a great experience seeing them play. It was a good atmosphere. The fans stood up the whole game and never sat down. They have a great fan base.”
It would be the same as in history when some cities did not allow businesses that were discriminatory towards African Americans. I think a city can, basically, state what businesses are allowed in (but it might not hold up legally). The Mayor of Boston will get lots of great press for this in Boston and it will help his re-election, since the majority of people there (even the Christians) believe he is right for doing this and applaud him for it.
Basically, he is a leader standing up to a business that is discrimatory. I admire that. You may be surprised that I would admire a Mayor that does this against FOR Chick-fil-a, as well. Both sides have their rights.
As for press coverage of when right wing groups protest (I am not going to say Christians, anymore, because there are Christians on BOTH sides of this issue and the right wing against equal rights does not own that term) vs. when people that are for equal right protest, one gets more press because it is the minority. I am sure Fox news highlighted the protest on Penney's more than this one (except for playing the victim in this one) and MSNBC gives more press to this one. That is how the world works, my friend, and I am thankful for everyone beling able to speak their mind and it now be heard more than ever.
Many have been persecuted throughout history and they did the SAME thing that Gay persons are doing now - fighting for their rights against people that don't want them to have them.
And, yes, they have and are persecuted. A person beat up because they are Gay is persecution. A preacher on the pulpit stating it is a sin to be who they are is persecution. Police raiding a Gay Bar in Fort Worth last year is persecution. People have learned not to say the "N" word for African Americans finally. I wonder when it will be wrong for people on this thread and others to use the "F" word or to even talk down about Gay persons?
Slow down there professor. You assume too much. I never justified anything. I certainly never said it was moral or "right". My point was that it is not being carried out by "Christians" (in an organizational sense) and that it is no less constitutional that what Chicago and Boston are doing.
A preacher in the pulpit stating that homosexuality is a sin is his job and duty-not persecution. The distinction comes in what the preacher says should be done about homosexuality. If it is a sin, then the homosexual should be treated no differently than the adulterer, thief, murderer, liar, bestiality practicer, etc... I know of churches that don't allow practicing homosexuals to attend church yet turn a blind eye on adulterers/fornicators, liars, thiefs. There should be no distinction in my opinion. You can't reach them, if you keep them at a distance.
You are foolish for a applauding such a tyrannical violation of individual liberties. Just because a mayor disagrees with traditional, scripture-based beliefs on gay marriage, it does not give him the right to use government power to suppress commercial activities by individuals who hold those beliefs.
I am not aware of a single claim of discrimination for ANY reason in ANY of the hundreds of CFA's across the country. To what are you referring when you say that CFA is a discriminatory business?
It is his opinion. Go to another Church in the Northeast and you will hear something very different and they are following the Bible too. It all depends on your interpretation and translation of the Bible. We could get into why there are so many denominations of churches again. I think I will skip that round this time. All the sins you mentioned in comparison to Homosexuality hurt other people (or animals). There is no comparison.
In fact, I am tired of this thread. I think it should be titled Southern Baptist right wing Christians feel that they are being persecuted. There are many of us Christians that do not feel persecuted at all.
They donate money to causes that are hateful to others. Yes, right wing Christians groups are hurtful to others. I am sure you have read some of the literature of "family values" groups. YOU may not see it as hurtful, but it is........
The simple fact is that everyone is free to protest, write their opinions, and eat/shop where they wish. Stand up for what you believe in. I respect that. I will do the same, though.
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