Can all of BB&B unite on this issue?

[TechDawgMc]

I think our two party system has finally come to an impasse. They are more concerned with the party line than getting anything effective done for our citizens. They have also managed to divide the American people so that nobody is willing to listen to any other viewpoints. We cannot survive like this.
I always hear how Congress is controlled by big business and special interests, but never really believed it until I saw what happened in the Senate with this immigration bill. I have never felt more betrayed by our government. We need a viable third party.

I think there's a lot of truth in what you say, but I'm not convinced that a viable third party is possible. Our system (the "winner takes all" approach) does not allow for multiple parties. Yes, in history we've seen one party come in and another die, but it's been more than 150 years since that happened. We've never sustained a three-party system at all, though. It's just too tough for the third party to maintain any power at all since they are at a disadvantage in every single congressional election. (The Parliamentary process that most of Europe uses makes it much more possible--but raises a whole different set of problems as well)

I suspect the entrenchment of the current two parties would make it very difficult to have a new party arise -- one party would have to really lose power (that's basically what happened when the Republicans replaced the Whigs) and that would be tough when the split is close to 50-50.

Somehow, I think we have to create real change in the parties. That means that we have to be willing to vote against someone from a party even if it's the party we'd normally support. Otherwise, there's no real reason for people to change. For instance, the GOP knows that a significant portion of the "Christian right" would never vote Democratic--this makes the politicians take those people for granted. The same thing happens to minorities on the Dem side. It creates a certain sense of arrogance: how can they afford to throw me out?

[JAAgan]

I think there is a real chance, if the people of the country do get enough of this garbage, that we could see a new party system emerge, but the real problem is that the disaffected people are in the middle and at election time both parties manage to squeeze to the middle and attract the voters back, making them think "we've changed" or by simplying frighening them about the other party (Democrats with Social Security, Republicans with Gun Control, for example.)

Unlike many, I don't see Hillary as a shoe-in for the nomination, I see her high negatives and her status as the front-runner a death-trap for her. (Of course that's because I don't buy the "media in her pocket" scenario. The media is for profit and they are equal opportunity in savaging front-runners.) However, she is powerful enough that she will cripple the Democratic Party if she doesn't get the nomination.

The already apparent splits on the Republican side are only going to increase as the primaries begin and the economic conservatives and the religoius conservatives try to come to a consensus plus the huge cracks this immigration issues has exposed.

I truly think that in 2008, if the centrists from both parties could drop the "hang-up" about party labels, a unified ticket could win -- apart from the major parties -- and completely disrupt the system. That momentary pause of John McCain to contemplate John Kerry's offer to run for Veep in 2004, was really astonishing. Now, it would have to be a more conservative Democrat than Kerry making the offer, but the fact it was seriously discussed was really unique.

Do I think it will happen? No. But for the first time in my life I can see it happening, under the right set of circumstances. I've been telling my Poli Sci classes for a couple of years that it is the first time I can ever conceive of an end to the party system we've had since 1854.

[johnnylightnin]

McCain/Romer...that's the ticket!

[TYLERTECHSAS]

I saw today that both Jindal and Landrieu have said that the FBI was correct and that congress is not above the law. Jindal went so far as to send a letter to the speaker to criticise his comments. I will be writing a letter to Jindal thanking him for his position.

Glad to hear.

[rbhtech]

TYLER you are a great American!!!

[aubunique]

If people are gambling online, then the FBI agents checking for child porn can catch them in the same process.

Some of you guys may earn enough money to risk some of it gambling but many people who gamble need protection from their own weakness. A person who neglects his family's needs to try for ill-gotten gains by gambling is as sick as a druggie, etc.

It would be nice if we could educate the population not to sin and have no excuse for intrusion into private activity.

There are many important things a person can do with extra money and there are honest jobs available to earn money.

Developing caring citizens is the goal both the political parties should be trying to achieve.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

TYLER you are a great American!!!

Me?? Gee thanks! You too!

[altadawg]

If people are gambling online, then the FBI agents checking for child porn can catch them in the same process.

Some of you guys may earn enough money to risk some of it gambling but many people who gamble need protection from their own weakness. A person who neglects his family's needs to try for ill-gotten gains by gambling is as sick as a druggie, etc.

It would be nice if we could educate the population not to sin and have no excuse for intrusion into private activity.

There are many important things a person can do with extra money and there are honest jobs available to earn money.

Developing caring citizens is the goal both the political parties should be trying to achieve.

First of all, FBI agents should not be looking for online poker players because playing online poker is unlawful only in a few jurisdictions. Therefore, its up to local law enforcement at this point and should have nothing to do with the feds. However, with the way our Fed Gov has been acting and spying on us lately, who knows.

Second, Aub, most people do lose money gambling or in my case playing poker online. I am not one of those people. I take money from players from all over the world. With that money I pay taxes, spend money in the good ole states, and invest it. Its not a ton of $ but not many people bring ANY new money into the states these days. IF you dont believe me, check out the trade deficit.

Some people make their living pawning off porn, hamburgers with 80 grams of fat, or by selling you a new transmission when you went in for an oil change. I take money from people from London, NY, and Russia, and spend it in the south.

Call it a sin if you would like.

If the Feds get up in my business, Im out of here. Its very simple.

[saltydawg]

First of all, FBI agents should not be looking for online poker players because playing online poker is unlawful only in a few jurisdictions. Therefore, its up to local law enforcement at this point and should have nothing to do with the feds. However, with the way our Fed Gov has been acting and spying on us lately, who knows.

Second, Aub, most people do lose money gambling or in my case playing poker online. I am not one of those people. I take money from players from all over the world. With that money I pay taxes, spend money in the good ole states, and invest it. Its not a ton of $ but not many people bring ANY new money into the states these days. IF you dont believe me, check out the trade deficit.

Some people make their living pawning off porn, hamburgers with 80 grams of fat, or by selling you a new transmission when you went in for an oil change. I take money from people from London, NY, and Russia, and spend it in the south.

Call it a sin if you would like.

If the Feds get up in my business, Im out of here. Its very simple.

Nuthin' wrong about taking money from gamblers from NYC, Russia, or London and spending it in the South.

I have a good friend who has been a poker player all his life and at age 67 enjoys going to the local indian casinos for some Texas-Holdem. He practically freaked-out one time when I asked him if OU had a good football team.

[markay714]

McCain/Romer...that's the ticket!

Yuck! McCain for nothing!

[markay714]

Best idea I've ever read on the Pawlitics board. I am sick of both the Republicans and Democrats. They are putting this country on the fast track to destruction.

While I might agree most need to be replaced, I'm not quite ready to throw the whole bunch of 'em out yet. I am quite frustrated with the lack of leadership shown in the House and the Senate. If anything, I'm thinking the House is showing a bit more guts than normal on the immigration issue. On this Jefferson thing, I think anyone thinking the FBI raid was inappropriate should be investigated....or something like that. Clearly, these guys get to thinking they are above the law, and that is unacceptable.

What really makes me sick is the failure to deal with the real issues and to make tough decisions at all. We can't keep postponing dealing with Social Security and healthcare forever. We could easily devastate our economy before these guys more concerned about being reelected than in doing a good job make me sick! I do think often that they would rather see the country suffer than to be voted out of office for doing what they thought was best - that's unfortunate and not the path to greatness for our country.

[saltydawg]

While I might agree most need to be replaced, I'm not quite ready to throw the whole bunch of 'em out yet. I am quite frustrated with the lack of leadership shown in the House and the Senate. If anything, I'm thinking the House is showing a bit more guts than normal on the immigration issue. On this Jefferson thing, I think anyone thinking the FBI raid was inappropriate should be investigated....or something like that. Clearly, these guys get to thinking they are above the law, and that is unacceptable.

What really makes me sick is the failure to deal with the real issues and to make tough decisions at all. We can't keep postponing dealing with Social Security and healthcare forever. We could easily devastate our economy before these guys more concerned about being reelected than in doing a good job make me sick! I do think often that they would rather see the country suffer than to be voted out of office for doing what they thought was best - that's unfortunate and not the path to greatness for our country.

What would you like to do with Social Secuirty and health care?

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Found this interesting.
How Internet monitoring sparked a CSIS investigation into a suspected homegrown terror cell
Jun. 3, 2006. 01:00 AM


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=969048863474

[markay714]

Social Security - Want them to work on addressing how to transition it to an optional program for people of a reasonable age - President Bush's plan. The big thing is something needs to be done to make it where we aren't wanting to allow in illegal aliens so that we can fund it!

Health Care - I want to see it where its like car and life insurance w/ one caveat - can't be cancelled if you get sick. It needs to be removed from our employment - should be able to get it when you're young and a company can't cancel you when your sick. Its tough to retire early because you can't keep health insurance - or at least health insurance where they can't cancel you. The worst idea ever was to offer health insurance as an employee benefit.....cash money practically can't really buy it reliably. You get cancer and you're out of luck if you have an individual policy.

[saltydawg]

Social Security - Want them to work on addressing how to transition it to an optional program for people of a reasonable age - President Bush's plan. The big thing is something needs to be done to make it where we aren't wanting to allow in illegal aliens so that we can fund it!

Health Care - I want to see it where its like car and life insurance w/ one caveat - can't be cancelled if you get sick. It needs to be removed from our employment - should be able to get it when you're young and a company can't cancel you when your sick. Its tough to retire early because you can't keep health insurance - or at least health insurance where they can't cancel you. The worst idea ever was to offer health insurance as an employee benefit.....cash money practically can't really buy it reliably. You get cancer and you're out of luck if you have an individual policy.

I agree with you on the health care issue. Social Security is going to be funded one way or another because the "old folks" out there (like me) pay attention to issues that affect them and they are one of the largest voting blocs, if not the largest. They don't call Social Security the "third rail" of American politics for nuthin'. As for making it voluntary, a lot of Americans have a negative savings rate.