But you didn't answer the question about the early Christians? Did they know something you don't?
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But you didn't answer the question about the early Christians? Did they know something you don't?
Look, Salty. Early Chrisitans sometimes chose not to resist. That is absolutely true. Jesus did say that they should turn the other cheek in that particular passage.Originally Posted by saltydawg
I don't think we should invade North Korea yet. I think we should give the people of North Korea a chance to stand up against Men Tali Il. I think we should turn the other cheek in that situation. Does that make me a pacifist? NO. (Please don't argue about that on here. It is off topic.)
The logic doesn't work. Just because He said non-violence is important doesn't mean he's a pacifist when at other times He said the complete opposite. If you mean pacifism to be the total rejection of violence, then no, Jesus was not a pacifist. It doesn't work like that for my side of the argument. He can say that peace is the only way in a hundred million situations, and all it takes is one justifiable situation. When you look at the WHOLE BIBLE, the only sensical conclusion is that Jesus was not a pacifist. It's just that simple. He was a peaceful man, but not a pacifist.
I'm not sure I can agree that any of the categories can truly claim to support the war. It depends more on your actions than what category one might fall in. The wars of today are not just fought on the "battlefield". There are many aspects of present wars that have very little to do with arms and munitions. The will to fight and the means to lessen and destroy the will to fight is one aspect that can be greatly affected by the actions of one who claims to support the troops yet gives public notice that they do not support the war through various means. Some of those actions are more damaging than others with some being down right traitorous IMHO. All I would ask of someone who "supports the troops" is to think about what aid they may be giving to the enemy which in turn hurts our troops before they act! If they act even though they realize what the action means, then they are traitors and should be dealt with accordingly. Free speech should only go as far as it begins to harm others, especially our troops in combat!
WWDog
La Tech
Region and hyphen free since 1894!
Flagship of the University of Louisiana System
You really believe that people should support wrong and unnecessary wars so that the aggressor can win?
You should get a bumper sticker that says I SUPPORT STUPID WARS.
Name me one early Christian that choose violence over non-violence.
Before you ask, the next verse isJohn 18:10
Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servants name was Malchus)
He didn't tell Peter to put the sword away because he shouldn't use violence. These were events that were supposed to happen. He was fulfilling his purpose.John 18:11
Jesus commanded Peter, "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"
Any others? Especially after Jesus died on the cross.
What's wrong? That example wasn't good enough for you. I'm through with you. Nothing anyone says will convince you. You asked for ONE early Christian. I gave you one. If I thought it would make a difference, I'd give you some more. But, you've shown me your colors.
Good point.
Can you give me some examples of early Christians who practiced non-violence responses to the Romans?
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."- Matthew 5:9-10
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."- Matthew 5:38-48
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."- Matthew 7:12
"And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. But Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"- Matthew 26:51-52
"And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, 'Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?' But He turned and rebuked them, and said, 'You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.'"- Luke 9:54-56
"And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do."- Luke 12:4
"Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.'"- John 18:36
Once again, all you need is one counter example. Which you have been given. Sorry, but that's pretty much it.
Sorry, but life is a learning experience, and it appears that Simon Peter learned from his mistake. The only thing that passage of the Bible proves is that Jesus preached non-violence.
How many of Jesus' Disciples were executed by the Romans and how many of they fought their capture and execution.
Salty
Once our congress votes to support a war and continues to support the war, which they have done, then we as "supporters of the troops" need to watch what we say that WILL harm our troops in combat and this country's war efforts. If this war is so stupid, then why have your democratic buddies in office voted to continue to support the war then turn around and say things that harm our efforts. It is politics, pure and simple and should be handled accordingly. If they don't believe in the war then vote to stop it or else don't say things that harm our effort.
WWDog
La Tech
Region and hyphen free since 1894!
Flagship of the University of Louisiana System
WWDog, Congress has not declared war against Iraq.
As far as the Democratic Party is concerned, I'm more of an Independent than anything else. I've voted for both Republicans and Democrats. Our invasion of Iraq was a mistake from the beginning and any politican that voted for it or continues to support is doing the wrong thing.
I volunteered for the US Army in '67 because I believed the BS about stopping the spread of Communism. Viet-nam was, like Iraq is, a phony war. Has nothing to do with protecting the national security interests of the United States. Has everything to do with spending billions and billions of dollars on the military-industrial complex.
The warfighters in Iraq understand that our society is based on the concept of free speech. They are professionals and are focused on the mission, not the politics of it. Americans who are against our wrong and unnecessary invasion of Iraq can speak openly about the stupid policies of Bush & Co. because the Iraqi insurgents could care less about their opinions.
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