Supporting Our Troops

[duckbillplatty]

Sorry, but life is a learning experience, and it appears that Simon Peter learned from his mistake. The only thing that passage of the Bible proves is that Jesus preached non-violence.

How many of Jesus' Disciples were executed by the Romans and how many of they fought their capture and execution.

John 18:36

My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

And BTW - You can't keep placing restrictions on your words. First you say "early Christians" so you throw out the Old Testament. The Old Testament definitely shows the importance of fighting for what is right. It also has the prophecies of Jesus' coming in which he would "slay the wicked". Then you say, "After Jesus died". Well I think the red words are more important than how men followed them after his death. Salty, you are WRONG.

[saltydawg]

John 18:36

My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

And BTW - You can't keep placing restrictions on your words. First you say "early Christians" so you throw out the Old Testament. The Old Testament definitely shows the importance of fighting for what is right. It also has the prophecies of Jesus' coming in which he would "slay the wicked". Then you say, "After Jesus died". Well I think the red words are more important than how men followed them after his death. Salty, you are WRONG.

What Jesus is saying in St. John 18:36 is that fighting is for people who have not been saved and are still living in this world.

Yes, the God of the old testament is ready to smite down the unrighteous. Jesus present a new message of God and that is LOVE.

Jesus' actions and words show that he was against fighting. He ordered Peter to put away his sword.

I mentioned the early Christians because their conduct in not fighting the Romans, in meekly accepting being fed to the lions or nailed to a cross, is what eventually caused the Romans to change from their pagan religion to Christianity. Do you know who the first Christian Cesear was?

[duckbillplatty]

Yes, the God of the old testament is ready to smite down the unrighteous. Jesus present a new message of God and that is LOVE.

Good news everyone! Salty says we can throw out the Old Testament!

[saltydawg]

Good news everyone! Salty says we can throw out the Old Testament!

Christianity would be better for it. Sure, the Old Testament stories of Adam & Eve, Noah's Ark, etc are a hoot but Christianity sooner or latter will make the move into the 21st or 22nd Century.

But let's get back to the question of whether Jesus would support Bush & Co. invasion of Iraq or would he tell GWB to drop his sword?

[duckbillplatty]

Christianity would be better for it. Sure, the Old Testament stories of Adam & Eve, Noah's Ark, etc are a hoot but Christianity sooner or latter will make the move into the 21st or 22nd Century.

But let's get back to the question of whether Jesus would support Bush & Co. invasion of Iraq or would he tell GWB to drop his sword?

Whoa whoa whoa. I never said Jesus would support this war and I won't argue wether he would. Who am I to ever say something like that!?! I said that according to scripture Jesus is not some weak hippie.

And Salty, you can't be serious about the Old Testament thing... are you?

[saltydawg]

Whoa whoa whoa. I never said Jesus would support this war and I won't argue wether he would. Who am I to ever say something like that!?! I said that according to scripture Jesus is not some weak hippie.

And Salty, you can't be serious about the Old Testament thing... are you?

duckbill, reviewing the new testament scriptures I can see Jesus' position as allowing for self-defense for Christians while at the same time trying to reach the ideal of no war and no fighting.

As for the Old Testament, I really don't see the need for it in order to be a *Christian*, i.e., somebody who tries to live his or her life according to the teachings of Jesus. Sure, organized Christianity as adopted it as part of the faith but it has also adopted the pagan Roman winter holiday as the day to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

I guess if I wanted to be a Jew I could convert and learn to speak Hebrew and study the Old Testament. I mean, do Jews accept the New Testament?

[Soonerdawg]

One thing I do know. I will not go to Salty for help in understanding the Bible. After reading his and Champ110's method of interpretation, I am finally getting a feeling as to why they butcher the Constitution as well. It is the "pick your own interpretation to fit you agenda" method.

[duckbillplatty]

As for the Old Testament, I really don't see the need for it in order to be a *Christian*, i.e., somebody who tries to live his or her life according to the teachings of Jesus. Sure, organized Christianity as adopted it as part of the faith but it has also adopted the pagan Roman winter holiday as the day to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

I guess if I wanted to be a Jew I could convert and learn to speak Hebrew and study the Old Testament. I mean, do Jews accept the New Testament?

Silly. When Jesus, Peter and Paul talk of the scriptures, they weren't talking about the books yet to be written. The comment about Jews not accepting the New TEstament is equally as silly.

[saltydawg]

One thing I do know. I will not go to Salty for help in understanding the Bible. After reading his and Champ110's method of interpretation, I am finally getting a feeling as to why they butcher the Constitution as well. It is the "pick your own interpretation to fit you agenda" method.

Jesus says: "The straw that is in thy brother's eye, though seest; but the beam that is in thine own eye, thou seest not! When thou hast cast out the beam that is in thine own eye, then thou wilt see to cast out the straw from thy brother's eye."

Thomas v. 26

[saltydawg]

Silly. When Jesus, Peter and Paul talk of the scriptures, they weren't talking about the books yet to be written. The comment about Jews not accepting the New TEstament is equally as silly.

Jesus said: It is not possible for a man to ride two horses or stretch two bows; and it is not possible for a servant to serve two masters, unless he honours the one and insults the other. No one drinks old wine and immediately desires to drink new wine. And new wine is not poured into old wineskins, lest they burst; nor is old wine poured into a new wineskin, lest it spoil. An old patch is not sewn on a new garment, for a rent would result.

Thomas v. 47

[saltydawg]

Good news everyone! Salty says we can throw out the Old Testament!

Jesus Himself said the Old Testament was dead history.

"His disciples said to him: Twenty-four prophets spoke in Israel, and they all spoke of you. He said to them: You have abandoned the living one before your eyes, and spoken about the dead."

Thomas v. 52

[saltydawg]

Whoa whoa whoa. I never said Jesus would support this war and I won't argue wether he would. Who am I to ever say something like that!?! I said that according to scripture Jesus is not some weak hippie.

Well, how about an answer. Do you think that Jesus would support Bush & Co. invasion of Iraq?

[duckbillplatty]

Well, how about an answer. Do you think that Jesus would support Bush & Co. invasion of Iraq?

As I said, not my place to decide what he would support.

[WWDog]

Got this in an email today from a firend who served with me.
I think it is very appropriate!

A LITTLE PERSPECTIVE



Your alarm goes off, you hit the snooze and sleep for another 10

minutes.

He stays up for days on end.

-- --

You take a warm shower to help you wake up.

He goes days or weeks without running water.

-- --

You complain of a "headache", and call in sick.

He gets shot at, as others are hit, and keeps moving forward.

-- --

You put on your anti war/don't support the troops shirt, and go meet

up with your friends.

He still fights for your right to wear that shirt.

-- --

You make sure you're cell phone is in your pocket.

He clutches the cross hanging on his chain next to his dog tags.

-- --

You talk trash on your "buddies" that aren't with you.

He knows he may not see some of his buddies again.

-- --

You walk down the beach, staring at all the pretty girls.

He walks the streets, searching for insurgents and terrorists.

-- --

You complain about how hot it is.

He wears his heavy gear, not daring to take off his helmet to wipe

his brow.

-- --

You go out to lunch, and complain because the restaurant got your

order wrong.

He does not get to eat today.

-- --

Your maid makes your bed and washes your clothes.

He wears the same things for months, but makes sure his weapons are

clean.

-- --

You go to the mall and get your hair redone.

He doesn't have time to brush his teeth today.

-- --

You are angry because your class ran 5 minutes over.

He is told he will be held an extra 2 months.

----

You call your girlfriend and set a date for that night.

He waits for the mail to see if there is a letter from home.

-- --

You hug and kiss your girlfriend, like you do everyday.

He holds his letter close and smells his love's perfume.

-- --

You roll your eyes as a baby cries.

He gets a letter with pictures of his new child, and wonders if

they'll ever meet.

-- --

You criticize your government, and say that war never solves

anything.

He sees the innocent tortured and killed by their own government and

remembers why he is fighting.

-- --

You hear the jokes about the war, and make fun of the men like him.

He hears the gun fire and bombs.

-- --

You see only what the media wants you to see.

He sees the bodies lying around him.

-- --

You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don't.

He does what he is told.

-- --

You stay at home and watch TV.

He takes whatever time he is given to call and write home, sleep,

and eat.

-- --

You crawl into your bed, with down pillows, and try to get

comfortable.

He crawls under a tank for shade and a 5 minute nap, only to be

woken by gun fire.

-- --

You sit there and judge him, saying the world is a worse place

because of men like him. If only there were more men like him.



"Dominus Fortissima Turris"

IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS,

PLEASE, FEEL FREE TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM !!!

[daybreaker2]

-- --

You put on your anti war/don't support the troops shirt, and go meet

up with your friends.

He still fights for your right to wear that shirt.

-- --

You criticize your government, and say that war never solves

anything.

He sees the innocent tortured and killed by their own government and

remembers why he is fighting.

-- --

You hear the jokes about the war, and make fun of the men like him.

He hears the gun fire and bombs.

-- --

You see only what the media wants you to see.

He sees the bodies lying around him.

-- --

You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don't.

He does what he is told.

-- --

You sit there and judge him, saying the world is a worse place

because of men like him. If only there were more men like him.

This would be a good non-partisan email if not for the parts I just quoted. These lines, though, just show how the right is trying to demonize anti-war people. Never once have I said anything negative about the troops, or joked about them, or said they make the world a worse place. And I dont know too many people, outside of the fringe ultra-left-wing nutcases that the right likes to make popular to prove their point, who do that either.

And the one about "doing what youre told"? How does that fit? Are you trying to say we should all be mindless androids who do what the government tells us? No, it is our ability to question what we feel is wrong that is the very FOUNDATION of this country. If doing what youre told was such a virture, we would still be British citizens.