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Thread: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

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    POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    What say you guys?

    CONSERVATIVE CATHOLICS THINK POPE FRANCIS IS A FRAUD

    'Risks identifying the Magisterium of the Church with the progressive left'


    It's been four years since Pope Francis kicked off one of the most striking papacies in memory. Within the Catholic world, sadly divided into warring political camps, he is seen as a hero by progressive Catholics and a scourge of conservatives.
    Why do so many conservatives dislike Pope Francis? In many cases, because he makes noises they dislike.
    Francis has had harsh words against globalized capitalism, has written a major encyclical on the environment, and has been a major supporter of migrants in the crisis seizing Europe. In all these controversies, he actually hasn't strayed too far from Catholic orthodoxy. But the most charitable version of the conservative critique, which is not unjustified, is that his tone and emphasis make him sound like a straightforward progressive, and risks identifying the Magisterium of the Church with the progressive left.
    Then there are the hot-button, below-the-belt issues. Pope Francis clearly would like to overturn Catholic doctrine saying that the faithful who are divorced and civilly remarried but have not received an annulment must refrain from receiving holy communion. He has walked right up to the line of overturning that doctrine, insulted those who oppose the move, and winked heavily at those Catholics who take a "Who am I to judge?" approach to communion. Conservatives fear that Francis' actions represent tentative first steps down a dangerous slippery slope. Is this the beginning of an eventual undoing of all of Catholicism's ancient and countercultural teachings on sexual ethics? If he goes too far, could he create a new schism within the Church?
    I'm sympathetic to all of these critiques. But here's the thing: One of the key endeavors of modernity has been to separate religion and politics; but paradoxically, the result of trying to separate them often makes them collapse together. When religion is turned into a private hobby, people turn politics into another kind of religion. My point is that what makes a pope's legacy isn't political. It's spiritual.

    MORE

    http://theweek.com/articles/685573/why-conservative-catholics-think-pope-francis-fraud

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Nothing new. Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI were vilified within certain segments of the Catholic church. To a lesser extent Pope John Paul II was as well.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    I would say he has a marketing strategy that is working well. All this change the people are complaining about, isn't really changing the church. If you look at all official catholic viewpoints on main topics such as abortion, birth control, women in the clergy, etc. Think of all these controversial topics and you will notice he has not changed the church's stance on any of these. What he has done is followed a good marketing strategy. Unlike other popes, he is becoming a pope to relate to. He refuses to wear the traditional ornate clothing of other popes after centuries of complaints about the church's opulence. There are stories of him sneaking out into the streets of Rome to help the homeless. He washes the feet of refugees during holy week.

    These are all great marketing moves. That's not to mean that he doesn't believe these are the right things to do as a christian, but I believe he and his immediate circle want these stories to get out so they can market the church. They want people to think, "wow, the leader of the church is doing very charitable things and seems sincere. Maybe the church has changed. Maybe I'll look into going back."

    This marketing goes along with the political things he is saying. The viewpoints he takes tend to appeal to the young people of Europe and the industrialized world- the parts of the world where the church is losing its parishioners. The church's doctrine's have no official rules about economies, the environment, or migrants so he is free to say his opinions on them. His opinions appeal to the masses (no pun intended) and coupled with his sincere actions as a pope, he is marketing the church to increase its membership. Simple as that. The people complaining just see it as too much change and think its too far even though nothing official in church doctrine has changed.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    I am a Catholic and a conservative. I tend to be slightly traditional leaning as a Catholic. I do not mind the political viewpoints of Pope Francis as I appreciate his reasoning behind them being in love. I don't agree with all of them by any means, but his political beliefs are not dogma and never will be.

    I agree with Dawgonit about most of it being marketing.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Who gives a crap what the pope says or thinks? This is not the 15th century. Everybody, except the muslims, believe the earth is round and orbits the sun.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    Who gives a crap what the pope says or thinks? This is not the 15th century. Everybody, except the muslims, believe the earth is round and orbits the sun.
    Billions of people care what the Pope says. On the other hand, no one cares what you say.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    1.27 Billion is not "billions".

    Just to touch on one other comment above...the catholic church is not "the church".
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    the catholic church is not "the church".
    The catholic church is "the church"...the Catholic church is not. Funny story, one of my first Sundays at my church during seminary and me and a bunch of baptist students were reciting the apostle's creed and we got to the third stanza:

    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic* church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and the life everlasting. Amen.

    I didn't know what was going on!
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Billions of people care what the Pope says. On the other hand, no one cares what you say.
    Apparently, you care. You need to see the Academy award winning movie, Spotlight. It will open up your eyes to what the Catholic church really is, a haven for pedophiles.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    1.27 Billion is not "billions".

    Just to touch on one other comment above...the catholic church is not "the church".
    41% of the Catholic population is located in Central and South America, some of the poorest and uneducated countries in the world. They were much better off before the Spanish Conquistadors wiped out most of their culture and population and converted them to Catholicism. These countries also turn out the many thugs that are crossing our southern border like the two that raped the 14 year old girl in Maryland in a school bathroom. Apparently Catholicism is not having a good effect on them. Didn't the present pope come from South America?

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Smh

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    For DonW -- As a devout Catholic I cannot believe you are making such a blanket statement. You were educated at the greatest school in the world and then you make such a statement. All I can say is Come On Man.

  13. #13
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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    I am right with you VADawg, but I have become used to people attacking the Catholic church on misguided charges. I am not a fool and saying the Catholic church is perfect because the humans that are carrying out her mission are flawed, but the vitriol that is usually directed at her, like DONW's slur is weak and a reach.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Quote Originally Posted by VADawg1 View Post
    For DonW -- As a devout Catholic I cannot believe you are making such a blanket statement. You were educated at the greatest school in the world and then you make such a statement. All I can say is Come On Man.
    What did I say that is not true? My education is what allows me to see corrupt organizations like the Catholic church. That same education that you got should also allow you to see the same thing I see. I don't close my eyes to this kind of evil and just ignore it like you do.

    If you haven't seen the movie, Spotlight, you need to see it. It was a former priest that left the church because of its corruption that gave the Boston Globe writer the information on the priests that raped the little kids. Out of 1500 priests in the Boston area, there were 87 that were either defrocked or reprimanded for raping children. The cardinal over these priest had been covering this up for years and just moved them from one church to another. He was moved out of Boston and given a cushy job in the Vatican before he could be arrested. Since 2003 there have been close to 4000 priest that have been found guilty of raping little kids. What kind of effect do you think that has had on those kids that will last a lifetime.

    We live in a politically correct society these days and that causes a lot of people not to speak out when they see corruption. Everybody knew what was going on in those Catholic churches in Boston, but, they were afraid to speak out about it because of the political power of the church. I've never worried about being politically correct and I have no problem at all in criticizing the catholic church.

    You're apparently one of those people that thinks he has to have a man-made religion and you most likely chose the Catholic Church because you were raised a Catholic. You have been brainwashed by the catholic church for so long that you have lost the most important thing that God gave you, the ability to reason. I would reccomend you read Thomas Paine's book, The Age of Reason, to help clear your mind.

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    Re: POPE FRANCIS a Fraud per Conservative Catholics

    Quote Originally Posted by atobulldog View Post
    I am right with you VADawg, but I have become used to people attacking the Catholic church on misguided charges. I am not a fool and saying the Catholic church is perfect because the humans that are carrying out her mission are flawed, but the vitriol that is usually directed at her, like DONW's slur is weak and a reach.
    To say that the priests that rape children are flawed is like saying Hitler was a good Catholic except for killing millions of people. I assume you do know Hitler was a catholic and his birthday was celebrated by the Vatican from 1931 until his death in 1945. I would also reccomend that you read Thomas Paine's book, The Age of Reason.

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