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The plan for a staged pullout is in the works. The details and timing however, will never be totally public. Watch for a BUSH annoucement to hint at this one. We are just waiting on Iraq and it's people to have the ability to defend itself. Easy for me to say.
Yes, I imagine that it will be stated about a week before the elections. The Republicans once again will depend on the short memory of many Americans. It may work. It usually does.Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
I hope so. But a staged planned pullout, after traning the Iraqi's to defend themselves (JOB IS DONE), has always been in the works/plans. Bush just always stated that we would never be out of Iraq totally while he was still in office. Remember, he knows the planned timetable and we don't. However, he never stated that the staging of our troops home wouldn't start before he left office. I think it will. Let's just hope that we don't leave and Iran storms in. Talk about a mess.Yes, I imagine that it will be stated about a week before the elections. The Republicans once again will depend on the short memory of many Americans. It may work. It usually does.
If Iran stormed in, I think at least we would have some help. Right now, we are doing this basically by ourselves.
Bush has refused to change his course - his quote not mine. He declared victory years ago and we still are there in a more dangerous situation than before the "victory". The death toll keeps increasing weekly - not decreasing. His plan has not worked.
I am for a gradual pull out. I think Bush is NOW for that, but it has only been with the threat of losing this election cycle.
We got ourselves into a mess based on false information. That is fact. Some of us knew exactly what was going to happen just looking at Russia's problems in Afganistan. It is very similar.
We went after Saddam instead of concentrating on the real problem. That opened the doors for the terrorists to come into Iraq and battle us there. They are killing Americans as we sit here and debate on IF we should have ever gone in and WHAT we should do now. I am not a military leader, so I don't know the full answer. I just know that this administration doesn't seem to know either. The only difference is that I can admit it. Meanwhile, our Congress hasn't done ANYTHING of merit in any other area either.
The declared "Victory or job finished" was that of the particlular Battleship/Carrier on which that sign was hung behing BUSH during his speech. Not the overall war. DEMS have used the enthusiasm of those sailors and that ship to hammer on Bush and that just is not fair at all or right.
Information was correct, as the WMD are still believed, per Israeli and US intelligence per satellite and on the ground work, to have been shipped/trucked to SYRIA. IMHO, that is probably one reason we have not come down harder on SYRIA at this time. At least not yet.
As far as the Russia problems and Afganistan, the good old USA proved that we could do in Afganistan what Russia could NOT.
Tyler Tyler Tyler.............
The "Victory" was proclaimed for the war.
There were no WMD's in Iraq
and
How we handled Iraq is very similar to the long struggles Russia had in Afganistan.
You Republicans can just change the facts as you wish. You should compliment yourself, though. You sound a lot like our President.:icon_wink:
Why thank you!
Figured you would like that.Why thank you!
Iraq destroyed its WMD after the first Gulf War. Any claim that he shipped them to Syria is BS that neo-cons feed to their brain-dead followers.
He definitely didn't do that. We found those in storage. Regardless of whether they were actually dangerous to America today, he most certainly did NOT destroy them.Iraq destroyed its WMD after the first Gulf War. Any claim that he shipped them to Syria is BS that neo-cons feed to their brain-dead followers.
Those few, very old, non-functioning WMD were found mixed in with other conventional shells. The Iraqi's probably didn't even know they were there since the whole country was an ammo dump and record keeping was a joke.
Seriously, drop the whole charade of WMD. They were not there and what were there was not a threat. The intel was weak and possibly even manipulated to sell the war.
A better reason could be something to the effect that we went to war because Iraq was continually shooting at our planes in the No-fly zone. At least that is the best reason I can relate to and justify this war.
I will leave you all with this to discuss. Pat Tillman's brother on the War:
By Kevin Tillman
Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document.
It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.
Much has happened since we handed over our voice:
Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.
Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.
Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.
Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.
Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.
Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.
Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.
Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.
Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.
Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.
Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.
Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.
Somehow torture is tolerated.
Somehow lying is tolerated.
Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.
Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.
Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.
Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.
Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.
Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.
Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.
Somehow this is tolerated.
Somehow nobody is accountable for this.
In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.
Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.
Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,
Kevin Tillman
Thanks for posting that.
Seriously officer, I had NO IDEA that pot was in the back of my car. It must have been in there from a party a few months ago when a bunch of people were hanging around. I was probably just to high to remember they put it there.
I didn't bring it up, saltydawg did. I also said that what was there was not a threat.Seriously, drop the whole charade of WMD. They were not there and what were there was not a threat. The intel was weak and possibly even manipulated to sell the war.
Look at what I said and note that you've already admitted what I said was right. We found the SPECIFIC weapons that he was supposed to destroy after the Gulf war. Period. Fact. End of story.
Did he have the weapons that pre-war intelligence thought he had? Probably not. But what saltydawg said is out-right wrong.
Actually, Tyler bought up the subject. What exactly did we find? Certainly nothing that was a threat to the USA.
Of course reality didn't match up to the fantasy that GWB and his intelligence buddies cooked up to sell to the American people. The fact of the matter is that there was no credible reason to invade Iraq. PERIOD!
I suspect...... And have suspected for a long time......
That something very like what you propose will be the eventual outcome of this all too sad and completely unnecessary war.
If so...... The only major questions that remain for me are......
How many more hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of American soldiers and innocent Iraqi citizens will become casualities of this war before any such withdrawal can be completed......
And will the ALL OUT CIVIL WAR that is virtually certain to come...... Begin before or after any such phased removal of American troops is completed. There is no sadder film footage in the modern history of our nation than the photo coverage of America's last soldiers leaving Vietnam from the roof of our embassy building...... While countless Vietnamese citizens, who had cast their lot with America, were left crying and pleading for help at the gates and walls of our embassy compound. I shudder to imagine anything even approaching that moment in American history ever happening again in Iraq.
As for the redeployment of American troops to Afghanistan...... consider that this alleged theater of the "WAR AGSAINST TERRORISM" is now a UN operation, with complete UN control and nary an American general in plain sight. little george had a more than certain opportunity to become some form of a 911 political hero in Afghanistan...... AND he BLEW IT!
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