Ready

[champion110]

I am so ready for this election to come and go. It isn't so much the reason that some of you think I am wanting it, though. I am wanting it because this whole process gets more childlike each year. The candidates are like 7 year olds fighting each other and making up lies and spin. Even worse, are the people that buy into it all. Some people ACTUALLY believe that one candidate is BAD and one is GOOD. Folks, that simply isn't true. While they may believe differently on a few issues, most of them love this country.

Frankly, I don't know who is worst - is it those people that believe what they hear from VERY biased newscasters (insert preacher, TV commercials, and big name stars here) or is it the candidate's crew that is busy out there spinning it all.

I guess I think that it has all turned into a game to most of you. It is like a sporting event, so that you can yell "our team won" and give some high fives afterwards.

My hope is that this process becomes a more serious one in the future. Instead of watching clowns on TV or candidates making up and spinning things about the other one, I would like to see serious debates.

Instead of reading mindless dribble on this board, maybe we could talk about the issues, as well. Of course, I am sure this post will be "spun" now, as well.

[Dirtydawg]

I am so ready for this election to come and go. It isn't so much the reason that some of you think I am wanting it, though. I am wanting it because this whole process gets more childlike each year. The candidates are like 7 year olds fighting each other and making up lies and spin. Even worse, are the people that buy into it all. Some people ACTUALLY believe that one candidate is BAD and one is GOOD. Folks, that simply isn't true. While they may believe differently on a few issues, most of them love this country.

Frankly, I don't know who is worst - is it those people that believe what they hear from VERY biased newscasters (insert preacher, TV commercials, and big name stars here) or is it the candidate's crew that is busy out there spinning it all.

I guess I think that it has all turned into a game to most of you. It is like a sporting event, so that you can yell "our team won" and give some high fives afterwards.

My hope is that this process becomes a more serious one in the future. Instead of watching clowns on TV or candidates making up and spinning things about the other one, I would like to see serious debates.

Instead of reading mindless dribble on this board, maybe we could talk about the issues, as well. Of course, I am sure this post will be "spun" now, as well.

Oh yeah. Well my dad can beat up your dad.

[champion110]

Oh yeah. Well my dad can beat up your dad.

[duckbillplatty]

Well I'm sure Dirty is ready for it to come and go for the same reason I'm ready for it to come and go. There are some crazy races going on in the BR area.

And Champion110, I would like elections to be treated like sporting events by voters. A vested interest in specific campaigns that relate to them. Hell of a lot better than the mass apathy that we currently have.

[JAAgan]

Champion, have you read Tempting Faith the book that came out a couple of weeks ago by David Kuo. Kuo was the Assistant Director of the White House Office of Faith Based Initiatives and, like many of us on here it seems, a Christian who became involved in politics as a means to further goals of Christianity.

The book was spun by the media as an attack on the Bush White House, but what it really is is an examination of the role of Christians in modern American politics. Your remark about "good" and "bad' politicians made me think so much of what Kuo has to say.

He shares a concern that I have had for quite a while, the idea held by some on both sides that their political party is "God's Party." While he still believes very strongly in President Bush as a person, he tries to drive home the idea that a politician is a politician. If your main goal is to spread God's love, you don't go into politics, or if you do, you aren't very successful.

I think it is a very, very important read for all Christians, from any party and any ideology, as he cautions about allowing the goals of Christianity to become confused with the goals of a particular party.

Though much of what he reveals is about the inner-workings of the Bush White House, I felt "called on the carpet" for the times I put too much faith in politicians I admire.

He actually calls for Christians to take a "two-year fast" from political involvement, in order to gain perspective and to eliminate any groups -- White Evangelicals by the Republicans or Black Christians by the Democrats -- being taken for granted and used.

[champion110]

Champion, have you read Tempting Faith the book that came out a couple of weeks ago by David Kuo. Kuo was the Assistant Director of the White House Office of Faith Based Initiatives and, like many of us on here it seems, a Christian who became involved in politics as a means to further goals of Christianity.

The book was spun by the media as an attack on the Bush White House, but what it really is is an examination of the role of Christians in modern American politics. Your remark about "good" and "bad' politicians made me think so much of what Kuo has to say.

He shares a concern that I have had for quite a while, the idea held by some on both sides that their political party is "God's Party." While he still believes very strongly in President Bush as a person, he tries to drive home the idea that a politician is a politician. If your main goal is to spread God's love, you don't go into politics, or if you do, you aren't very successful.

I think it is a very, very important read for all Christians, from any party and any ideology, as he cautions about allowing the goals of Christianity to become confused with the goals of a particular party.

Though much of what he reveals is about the inner-workings of the Bush White House, I felt "called on the carpet" for the times I put too much faith in politicians I admire.

He actually calls for Christians to take a "two-year fast" from political involvement, in order to gain perspective and to eliminate any groups -- White Evangelicals by the Republicans or Black Christians by the Democrats -- being taken for granted and used.

I have heard of the book, but have not read it yet. It does sound like a good read. I will try to pick it up this weekend.

[Spinoza]

I have heard of the book, but have not read it yet. It does sound like a good read. I will try to pick it up this weekend.

I saw David Kuo discussing his book on MSNBC about a week ago......

I'm fairly certain it was with Chris Matthews on Hardball. I made a note of his name etc., and thought of bringing it to the board,but I decided to wait awhile and see if anyone else mentioned it.

I recall Kuo talking about all that was mentioned in the prior post by the fellow who actually read the book....... But Kuo was also quite specific about another matter that our reader did not mention.

Kuo talked about how various staff in the white house openly joked about how they had cajoled and conned and used the religiousht toward their own ends with no common cause...... But only to win and subsequently retain power to accomplish their real agenda.

Admittedly...... I have not read the book. I only listened to the author discussing the main themes of his book and why he wrote it.

But I cannot help but mention that I have been rather amused by the TRUE CONSERVATIVES on this board who have spent a goodly amount of time recently lambasting Kerry's nonsense...... With nary a mention of Kuo. I would think that any such insider remarks would STIR at least one little evangelical grey cell from some quarter.

Appararently NOT!

[champion110]

I saw David Kuo discussing his book on MSNBC about a week ago......

I'm fairly certain it was with Chris Matthews on Hardball. I made a note of his name etc., and thought of bringing it to the board,but I decided to wait awhile and see if anyone else mentioned it.

I recall Kuo talking about all that was mentioned in the prior post by the fellow who actually read the book....... But Kuo was also quite specific about another matter that our reader did not mention.

Kuo talked about how various staff in the white house openly joked about how they had cajoled and conned and used the religiousht toward their own ends with no common cause...... But only to win and subsequently retain power to accomplish their real agenda.

Admittedly...... I have not read the book. I only listened to the author discussing the main themes of his book and why he wrote it.

But I cannot help but mention that I have been rather amused by the TRUE CONSERVATIVES on this board who have spent a goodly amount of time recently lambasting Kerry's nonsense...... With nary a mention of Kuo. I would think that any such insider remarks would STIR at least one little evangelical grey cell from some quarter.

Appararently NOT!

Well, I know you aren't talking about me, since I am far from conservative. I did think Jaagan mentioned that there was some anti-Bush stuff in the book, though. I don't think he was glossing over that, I just think his point was about the political process and Christianity.

[JAAgan]

Spinoza, the content you mentioned is definitely there, but no names are mentioned, most likely because these people were Kuo's friends. I didn't find it necessary to mention becaue I am coming from a Christian perspective to this issue and whatever was said to ridicule the Evangelical leaders in the Bush White House is mild compared to what is said at the DNC.

You definitely have a vaild point about the Evangelical movement being coopted and used by the Republican Party and it is a huge part of Kuo's thesis. As such it should be fodder for the mainstream media and secular society.

However, the concluding points of his book are directed toward Christians who have allowed this to happen. Even though I am a strong supporter of the Democratic Party, I took those words to heart myself, and frankly I'm not much into a partisan "in your face" moment with those parts of the story.

In short, I'm always vitally concerned about the health of our nation, but I'm more concerned about the health of the Kingdom of God here on earth.

[mildawg]

I am so ready for this election to come and go. It isn't so much the reason that some of you think I am wanting it, though. I am wanting it because this whole process gets more childlike each year. The candidates are like 7 year olds fighting each other and making up lies and spin. Even worse, are the people that buy into it all. Some people ACTUALLY believe that one candidate is BAD and one is GOOD. Folks, that simply isn't true. While they may believe differently on a few issues, most of them love this country.

Frankly, I don't know who is worst - is it those people that believe what they hear from VERY biased newscasters (insert preacher, TV commercials, and big name stars here) or is it the candidate's crew that is busy out there spinning it all.

I guess I think that it has all turned into a game to most of you. It is like a sporting event, so that you can yell "our team won" and give some high fives afterwards.

My hope is that this process becomes a more serious one in the future. Instead of watching clowns on TV or candidates making up and spinning things about the other one, I would like to see serious debates.

Instead of reading mindless dribble on this board, maybe we could talk about the issues, as well. Of course, I am sure this post will be "spun" now, as well.

I don't know how it's going in Texas, but it is beyond ridiculous up here in Virginia and Maryland. Our local TV stations are out of DC, and that's all we ever see -- Michael Steele/Ben Cardin and George Allen/Jim Webb. They've had Michael J. Fox come through campaigning for Cardin and Webb, and their commercials air during every station break. The funny thing is, after all the airtime these guys have bought, I couldn't tell you where any of them stand on important issues. All I know is Republicans love Bush, support the Iraq war, and are against stem cell research (which I know is only a half-truth). All I know about the democrats is that they want to "cut and run" in Iraq and raise taxes.

In the end, most of these commercials and newspaper endorsements are a complete waste of time and money -- the majority of voters know which button they're going to press long before they walk into the booth. No amount of name-calling or negative ads is going to change their vote. For once, I'd like to see a candidate come out, address where he/she stands, and admit they can't fix Washington but would do everything within their power to respresent their district/state with dignity and in the best interests of their constituents. Nothing more. Unless they were Libertarian or Green Party, I'd probably vote for them.

[champion110]

For once, I'd like to see a candidate come out, address where he/she stands, and admit they can't fix Washington but would do everything within their power to respresent their district/state with dignity and in the best interests of their constituents. Nothing more. Unless they were Libertarian or Green Party, I'd probably vote for them.

They would, probably, never raise enough money to run successfully. That is shame of it all.

[dawg80]

mildawg:

What's your beef with the Libertarian Party? Admittedly, I haven't studied their platform very closely, but I do agree with a lot of what they stand for. (see my post on another thread about the federal budget).

The federal gov has simply gotten too big and wasteful. Here's another example. Even if you agree with some federal program, foodstamps for example, you SHOULD be concerned about the fraud and inefficiencies in the program. Most corporations operate with about an 8% administrative overhead, which includes the CEO's salary/perks, while most federal agencies operate with 75% administrative overhead. That is staggering!

The American taxpayer is being raped and pillaged and most taxpayers/voters don't seem to care.

[mildawg]

mildawg:

What's your beef with the Libertarian Party? Admittedly, I haven't studied their platform very closely, but I do agree with a lot of what they stand for. (see my post on another thread about the federal budget).

The federal gov has simply gotten too big and wasteful. Here's another example. Even if you agree with some federal program, foodstamps for example, you SHOULD be concerned about the fraud and inefficiencies in the program. Most corporations operate with about an 8% administrative overhead, which includes the CEO's salary/perks, while most federal agencies operate with 75% administrative overhead. That is staggering!

The American taxpayer is being raped and pillaged and most taxpayers/voters don't seem to care.

I don't have a beef with with the Libertarian Party. I just dislike Bill Maher. As far as your comment about the Fed Gov't being too big, I would agree. The federal programs you mentioned should be to HELP people get on their feet, not sustain them from birth to death.

As far as the corrupt agencies, I couldn't agree more. The government hires a lot of dirtbags who abuse their position -- I see it everyday. The same should be said for politicians, too -- which was the reason for my post. These guys are all the same, regardless of party. They go to Washington with dollar signs in their eyes. They say whatever their political base wants them to hear; they pretend to care about the interests of their consituents; in the end, they do what benefits them personally. Sad thing is, people just don't seem to care. They blindly vote for their political party's candidates and the cycle continues.

[mildawg]

mildawg:

What's your beef with the Libertarian Party? Admittedly, I haven't studied their platform very closely, but I do agree with a lot of what they stand for. (see my post on another thread about the federal budget).

The federal gov has simply gotten too big and wasteful. Here's another example. Even if you agree with some federal program, foodstamps for example, you SHOULD be concerned about the fraud and inefficiencies in the program. Most corporations operate with about an 8% administrative overhead, which includes the CEO's salary/perks, while most federal agencies operate with 75% administrative overhead. That is staggering!

The American taxpayer is being raped and pillaged and most taxpayers/voters don't seem to care.

www.lp.org. You made me curious, so I went and did a quick breeze through the party's website on where they stand. I would admit that I agree with a lot of their issues. I would diverge with them on a couple, including foreign policy, but they are much more down to earth than I would have imagined. Like I said previously, Bill Maher is their most prominent spokesman... or at least the most well-known Libertarian. All I could tell you about them based on the few times I've seen his show is that he hates Bush. Sounds a lot like the democrats to me. But, I believe most people would agree with them on issues like taxes, social security, gun ownership, and healthcare.

[Spinoza]

Spinoza, the content you mentioned is definitely there, but no names are mentioned, most likely because these people were Kuo's friends. I didn't find it necessary to mention becaue I am coming from a Christian perspective to this issue and whatever was said to ridicule the Evangelical leaders in the Bush White House is mild compared to what is said at the DNC.

You definitely have a vaild point about the Evangelical movement being coopted and used by the Republican Party and it is a huge part of Kuo's thesis. As such it should be fodder for the mainstream media and secular society.

However, the concluding points of his book are directed toward Christians who have allowed this to happen. Even though I am a strong supporter of the Democratic Party, I took those words to heart myself, and frankly I'm not much into a partisan "in your face" moment with those parts of the story.

In short, I'm always vitally concerned about the health of our nation, but I'm more concerned about the health of the Kingdom of God here on earth.

"I'm always vitally concerned about the health of our nation, but I'm more concerned about the health of the kingdom of God here on earth".

I cannot imagine any religious tome or lengthly political treatise, replete with voluminous verbiage...... That could better state your one sentence summation/declaration of man's ultimate raison d' etre (reason to be) in our obviously temporal and fleetingly transient world.

I have no idea if Kuo's idea of a "fast" from all political religiuos endeavors has any worldly merit...... But I cannot help but applaud Kuo's FAITH that HIS GOD needs no exaggerated human effort to sustain the KINGDOM OF GOD, that ALL Christians claim to live for as their only real goal.