View Poll Results: Who's more deserving of a spot in the NC game?

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • An undefeated Big East Team

    44 70.97%
  • A one loss team from the SEC/Big X/Big XII/Pac-10

    18 29.03%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 92

Thread: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

  1. #1
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,338

    Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Obviously this topic has been all over the radio here and Louisville and around the country. Every sports talking head in the country picked WVU. Going into the game, WVU was ranked 3rd in the BCS, so the talking heads didn't seem to mind putting them in the Championship game against the winner of OSU/UM. But, Louisville is now in position to jump Florida and take the #3 spot. People seem to have more of a problem with Louisville in the NC game. So, the debate today has been, is UL the #3 team in the country? Do they deserve to go to the NC game over a one loss Florida, USC, or Texas. What do you think?
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  2. #2
    Champ theprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond repute theprofessor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Alexandria
    Posts
    6,365

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Obviously this topic has been all over the radio here and Louisville and around the country. Every sports talking head in the country picked WVU. Going into the game, WVU was ranked 3rd in the BCS, so the talking heads didn't seem to mind putting them in the Championship game against the winner of OSU/UM. But, Louisville is now in position to jump Florida and take the #3 spot. People seem to have more of a problem with Louisville in the NC game. So, the debate today has been, is UL the #3 team in the country? Do they deserve to go to the NC game over a one loss Florida, USC, or Texas. What do you think?
    there's no question -- if you're going to have this system (rather than a playoff system), you have to take any undefeated bcs team (even rutgers!) over a team with one-loss!
    the bold, the beautiful, theprofessor

  3. #3
    Champ Dirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond repute Dirtydawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Ruston
    Posts
    17,159

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by theprofessor View Post
    there's no question -- if you're going to have this system (rather than a playoff system), you have to take any undefeated bcs team (even rutgers!) over a team with one-loss!
    I voted for the undefeated Big East team, but I disagree with what you're saying. In this system, you don't "have" to take any undefeated bcs team. That's why there is this system. It's all about the points and to keep the "strength of schedule" argument out of the equation where one team felt they should be #1 if they were undefeated even though they may have had an OOC schedule of Sunbelt teams whereas another team that had one loss to a top 10 team felt they should be #1 because they played a tougher schedule.

  4. #4
    Champ theprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond repute theprofessor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Alexandria
    Posts
    6,365

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtydawg View Post
    I voted for the undefeated Big East team, but I disagree with what you're saying. In this system, you don't "have" to take any undefeated bcs team. That's why there is this system. It's all about the points and to keep the "strength of schedule" argument out of the equation where one team felt they should be #1 if they were undefeated even though they may have had an OOC schedule of Sunbelt teams whereas another team that had one loss to a top 10 team felt they should be #1 because they played a tougher schedule.
    i disagree -- this system is moot when you have two (and only two) undefeated teams. the reason the system was put in place was to determine who was the better of the 1-loss teams when you only have one undefeated team or to choose the best 2 undefeateds when you have more than 2.
    the bold, the beautiful, theprofessor

  5. #5
    Champ Dirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond repute Dirtydawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Ruston
    Posts
    17,159

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by theprofessor View Post
    i disagree -- this system is moot when you have two (and only two) undefeated teams. the reason the system was put in place was to determine who was the better of the 1-loss teams when you only have one undefeated team or to choose the best 2 undefeateds when you have more than 2.

    Nope. You're wrong. That's why USC was passed over in the year of the co-championship. They didn't have the BCS points as did LSU or Oklahoma. I remember it well. All the LSU people were worried that they wouldn't get enough points for winning the SEC championship because they had already beaten Georgia and gotten the sos points. At least that's what they were saying down here.

  6. #6
    Champ TechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud ofTechDawgMc has much to be proud of
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Temple, TX
    Posts
    2,046

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtydawg View Post
    Nope. You're wrong. That's why USC was passed over in the year of the co-championship. They didn't have the BCS points as did LSU or Oklahoma. I remember it well. All the LSU people were worried that they wouldn't get enough points for winning the SEC championship because they had already beaten Georgia and gotten the sos points. At least that's what they were saying down here.
    But remember that USC wasn't undefeated that year--LSU, OU and USC were all one loss teams. If there are three teams with equal records, there has to be some way of picking two. But if Team A is undefeated and Team B is not, there needs to be a huge reason to ignore the undefeated team. Boise vs. Texas (or Florida) would be a tough call, but Louisville vs. Texas won't be. Rutgers would be a harder choice, but I think that'll take care of itself next week.

  7. #7
    Champ theprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond reputetheprofessor has a reputation beyond repute theprofessor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Alexandria
    Posts
    6,365

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by TechDawgMc View Post
    But remember that USC wasn't undefeated that year--LSU, OU and USC were all one loss teams. If there are three teams with equal records, there has to be some way of picking two. But if Team A is undefeated and Team B is not, there needs to be a huge reason to ignore the undefeated team. Boise vs. Texas (or Florida) would be a tough call, but Louisville vs. Texas won't be. Rutgers would be a harder choice, but I think that'll take care of itself next week.
    yeah, what he said.

    the bcs was created to separate like teams -- either multiple undefeated teams or multiple one-loss teams. it was not created to put a one-loss team in the championship game over an undefeated team. if that happens this year (whether it's michigan or florida ahead of louisville/rutgers), there will be plenty of screaming.
    the bold, the beautiful, theprofessor

  8. #8
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    57,422

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    I love seeing the flaws in the "system" when it hurts ANY of the other BCS teams. The system is obviously flawed now. To have California ahead of Tennessee is screwed up.

  9. #9
    Champ Dirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond repute Dirtydawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Ruston
    Posts
    17,159

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by TechDawgMc View Post
    But remember that USC wasn't undefeated that year--LSU, OU and USC were all one loss teams. If there are three teams with equal records, there has to be some way of picking two. But if Team A is undefeated and Team B is not, there needs to be a huge reason to ignore the undefeated team. Boise vs. Texas (or Florida) would be a tough call, but Louisville vs. Texas won't be. Rutgers would be a harder choice, but I think that'll take care of itself next week.

    But that's not what Bret said. Here is what he said:
    Quote Originally Posted by bhossmac
    the reason the system was put in place was to determine who was the better of the 1-loss teams when you only have one undefeated team or to choose the best 2 undefeateds when you have more than 2.
    But even so, it still wrong. After all, look at the big discussion now. It's whether or not the national championship game is going to be a repeat of the Michigan/Ohio State game because no one is even close to them in BCS points. Once again, that's why the system was put in place. Because there were teams with better records or equal records than the team that was claimed National Champion. Those teams felt they deserved the championship because they played a harder schedule even though they had a loss and the other team didn't. That's the whole reason you have the BCS now, so that if a school like Tech goes undefeated, we can't claim to be national champions. If Boise is undefeated, what makes their claim to the NC championship game any less than Louisville's if Louisville goes undefeated? What makes either school's claim any less than Ohio State's or Michigan's, whichever is undefeated?

    The answer: the BCS points. That's why the system was created. To keep the argument of who should be the NC. If the BCS allows an undefeated team that isn't in the top two of the BCS standings to jump into the NC game past a 1 loss team, then all the "mid-major" programs in the country should file their lawsuit the next day against the NCAA and BCS in an anti-trust court.
    Last edited by Dirtydawg; 11-04-2006 at 07:46 AM.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    57,422

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    The answer: the BCS points. That's why the system was created. To keep the argument of who should be the NC. If the BCS allows an undefeated team that isn't in the top two of the BCS standings to jump into the NC game past a 1 loss team, then all the "mid-major" programs in the country should file their lawsuit the next day against the NCAA and BCS in and anti-trust court.

    Shush! That's part of Benson's "private" master plan.

  11. #11
    Champ GatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond reputeGatorDawg has a reputation beyond repute GatorDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Jax
    Posts
    10,120

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    SOS only matters in determining BCS from non BCS. They are all considered equal level after that. National champion is about picking the top team in the country, not who played the toughest schedule. That is an important point because SOS is 99% luck. How can we name a national champ on who got lucky enough to schedule better teams? Why should we give teams in a tougher conference an automatic advantage in picking the top team? None of the BCS conferences would ever stand for that (not even SEC).

  12. #12
    Champ soccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nicesoccer_dawg9 is just really nice soccer_dawg9's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Ruston
    Posts
    1,038

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtydawg View Post
    Nope. You're wrong. That's why USC was passed over in the year of the co-championship. They didn't have the BCS points as did LSU or Oklahoma. I remember it well. All the LSU people were worried that they wouldn't get enough points for winning the SEC championship because they had already beaten Georgia and gotten the sos points. At least that's what they were saying down here.
    I think there has to be some type of flexiblity here. Remember, USC was ranked #1 in both polls (AP and coaches) before the bowls started and they were left out of the BCS national championship game. The only reason LSU were co-champs with USC that year is because the coaches were forced to vote for the BCS champion. The AP voted USC national champs and I believe if the coaches were to vote on their own they would've also picked USC and that would've been the end of the BCS.
    They should have the plus 1 game where the best two teams after they play in their respective bowl games play in the national championship a week later.

  13. #13
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,338

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by soccer_dawg9 View Post
    They should have the plus 1 game where the best two teams after they play in their respective bowl games play in the national championship a week later.
    16 team play-off using BCS rankings would be better. For some reason, college football is scared of a cinderella.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  14. #14
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Shreevesburg
    Posts
    29,338

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    They're now talking about whether or not Louisville with jump Florida...what a joke! Plus, they aren't even talking about the fact that OSU and UM barely scraped by against two terrible teams. This system is broke...PLAYOFF NOW!!!
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  15. #15
    Champ Dirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond reputeDirtydawg has a reputation beyond repute Dirtydawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Ruston
    Posts
    17,159

    Re: Undefeated BE team V/S One loss SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Juice752 View Post
    SOS only matters in determining BCS from non BCS. They are all considered equal level after that. National champion is about picking the top team in the country, not who played the toughest schedule. That is an important point because SOS is 99% luck. How can we name a national champ on who got lucky enough to schedule better teams? Why should we give teams in a tougher conference an automatic advantage in picking the top team? None of the BCS conferences would ever stand for that (not even SEC).
    You know, Juice, sometimes you make good sense. This isn't one of them. If SOS only matters in determining BCS from non-BCS, then what would happen if and independent non-Notre Dame 1a school scheduled the top 11 teams in the country and beat them all? Would they not be able to be national champion. If national champion is about picking the top team in the country, not who played the toughest schedule, how do you determine who is the top team? Simply by who has won the most games? What if a BCS team is undefeated but in OOC games has played nothing but Sunbelt teams while another BCS team has one loss but that loss is to the #1 team in the country as an OOC game as well as scheduling other top BCS teams as their OOC games. Are you saying the undefeated team should get the nod even though they obviously had an easier OOC game?
    Also, SOS is not 99% luck. If you schedule teams that are usually bottom dwellers in their non-BCS conferences, chances are you are going to have a weak SOS. If you schedule teams that are usually in the top 5 of their BCS conferences, then you will have a strong BCS conference. If your conference mates schedule weak teams, then your SOS won't be as strong. While there is some chance for deviation, an AD knows with pretty good certainty how tough a schedule will be when he schedules it. It certainly isn't 99% luck. There might be a 5% or less luck factor. As far as giving the team in the tougher conference the advantage in picking the top team, they all think they have the top conference.

    The simple fact of the matter is that's why the BCS was created. We had people picking the national champion before the BCS. The problem came when there were two undefeated teams and one thought they should be NC and the other thought they should be. There were even occasions when a 1 loss team was #1 in one poll and an udefeated in the other. You know what the argument was between the schools as to why should be #1 and not the other? The sos was the reason. So a system was put together to determine who had a stronger strength of schedule. Let me ask you this, Juice. Why is it the BCS rankings don't come out until later in the season? What do the BCS points mean and how are they determined?

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts