Policy change to gays in military

[champion110]

Also, while conservative Southern Christians believe it is a sin, not all Christians believe it is a sin. There are demoninations that do not believe this and people within some denominations that don't believe this.

...and now would be the time when Champion digs up his old links confirming the above statement.

Major you are about to hear about how the culturally challenged (southern Christians) need to broaden their minds and accept homosexuals for what they are. According to Champion, they were all born that way, even if they didn't discover it until they had been married with three kids when they discovered it.

I am a Southern Christian, as well. Born and raised in Louisiana and now lving in the Bible Belt of Tyler, Texas. I just have a different view than some of you. Major has made his points clear and intelligently, and I have appreciated hearing them.

[Security]

I agree with what you are saying about unit cohesiveness. And a lot of what you have to say.

However, Christians believe that it IS a sin and it IS a choice.

We're just going to need to split units up by demographics. The woman unit. The lesbo unit. The gay man unit. The Christian unit. Etc. If everybody would just do their stinking job and not worry about this stuff then things should work out.

Now, if you are gay and you sign up for military, you better damn sure understand the current climate and use some judgement if you want to stay enlisted.

Christians, what are you going to do when your child turns out to be gay? Blame yourself for allowing it?

[Security]

Why does this bug me so much?

I have one that we're betting is going to turn out to be gay. She's always displayed certain tendancies. I can't think of what at all that we could have done to cause this to happen.

I just don't believe its a choice in most cases, so I don't believe the "Christian" point of view on this. Who would intentionally choose to have this life style and all of the negative societal issues that comes with it? Seriously? I do believe a few might just to be rebellious, but the majority of gays? No way.

[champion110]

Why does this bug me so much?

I have one that we're betting is going to turn out to be gay. She's always displayed certain tendancies. I can't think of what at all that we could have done to cause this to happen.

I just don't believe its a choice in most cases, so I don't believe the "Christian" point of view on this. Who would intentionally choose to have this life style and all of the negative societal issues that comes with it? Seriously? I do believe a few might just to be rebellious, but the majority of gays? No way.

You didn't do a thing to "cause it", so just love your child no matter what. Also, please know that while Southern conservative Christians believe some things, there are other Christians that believe something different.

Please find some links to PFLAG. It is a great organization for parents.

[MajorDad]

Christians, what are you going to do when your child turns out to be gay?

Love them.

Blame yourself for allowing it?

Christians - I don't believe they will blame themselves because they believe it is a sin. From what I can tell, when an unbeliever or Christian that has totally turned his/her back on Christ, God will simply turn that person over to homosexuality (or whatever their sinful desires compel them to do). For this to happen to a Christian, it would seem that they would have to really reject God's authority. Kind of like a kid that turns against his parents authority or the civil authority; that kid will end up on his own and doing his own thing. They are still Christians, but just really, really bad. God will work in their lives to correct them, but at some point, they are so far gone that they just can't be persuaded to turn away from it. Then they are let loose to do whatever they choose. Other Christians think it's okay. I'm not sure why when this is pretty clearly condemned in the Bible.

Unbelievers - They could rationalize it to be whatever they want it to be - themselves, society, nature, etc.

[champion110]

Love them.



Christians - I don't believe they will blame themselves because they believe it is a sin. From what I can tell, when an unbeliever or Christian that has totally turned his/her back on Christ, God will simply turn that person over to homosexuality (or whatever their sinful desires compel them to do). For this to happen to a Christian, it would seem that they would have to really reject God's authority. Kind of like a kid that turns against his parents authority or the civil authority; that kid will end up on his own and doing his own thing. They are still Christians, but just really, really bad. God will work in their lives to correct them, but at some point, they are so far gone that they just can't be persuaded to turn away from it. Then they are let loose to do whatever they choose. Other Christians think it's okay. I'm not sure why when this is pretty clearly condemned in the Bible.

Unbelievers - They could rationalize it to be whatever they want it to be - themselves, society, nature, etc.

I have seen many teenagers in counseling that have thought the exact same thing that you have just stated, because this is what their parents and Church have told them. Some made it and some committed suicide.

If you find yourself in this situation, PLEASE contact PFLAG and don't take the advice of well meaning others. It may very well mean the life of your child. I am not exaggerating this.

[champion110]

I will AGAIN state that it is important to find a professional and not listen to people that THINK they know what this is about. It does not have to be PFLAG, but there are others that have studied this issue. Taking the advice of those that think they know the answers is like getting a psychologist to build a bridge and then trusting it to stand up to traffic. I would get to a expert in bridges, instead. Same in this case, don't get a bridge builder to help you with an issue like this.

[saltydawg]

I have seen many teenagers in counseling that have thought the exact same thing that you have just stated, because this is what their parents and Church have told them. Some made it and some committed suicide.

If you find yourself in this situation, PLEASE contact PFLAG and don't take the advice of well meaning others. It may very well mean the life of your child. I am not exaggerating this.

http://www.pflag.org/Louisiana.209.0.html

[champion110]

http://www.pflag.org/Louisiana.209.0.html

Thank you, Salty

[MajorDad]

I have seen many teenagers in counseling that have thought the exact same thing that you have just stated, because this is what their parents and Church have told them. Some made it and some committed suicide.

If you find yourself in this situation, PLEASE contact PFLAG and don't take the advice of well meaning others. It may very well mean the life of your child. I am not exaggerating this.

You should do both!

Spiritual counseling can help those that are seeking God's help. If not, then spiritual counseling is pretty much a waste of time. By that, I mean, God can only help those that want to be helped and have faith that He will do it. Proof: Matt 13:53-58 - He left Nazareth, his hometown, without performing any miracles because they did not faith in Him.

Either way, there is definitely a place for "human" counseling by trained professionals. Champion is right in that there are some well meaning clergy that have no business helping people with severe mental disorders (suicidal tendencies/thoughts included). However, I wouldn't go so far as to not "take the advice of well meaning others" as an absolute.

[champion110]

You should do both!

Spiritual counseling can help those that are seeking God's help. If not, then spiritual counseling is pretty much a waste of time. By that, I mean, God can only help those that want to be helped and have faith that He will do it. Proof: Matt 13:53-58 - He left Nazareth, his hometown, without performing any miracles because they did not faith in Him.

Either way, there is definitely a place for "human" counseling by trained professionals. Champion is right in that there are some well meaning clergy that have no business helping people with severe mental disorders (suicidal tendencies/thoughts included). However, I wouldn't go so far as to not "take the advice of well meaning others" as an absolute.

Major,
Please don't take me wrong. I think that trained Christian counselors definitely have a place to help Homosexuals accept who they are and to help families adjust to societal predjudices.

Clergyman CAN really help matters or make matters worse. It all depends on what they are trying to accomplish.

My comment above was about non-trained professionals, though.

[MajorDad]

Major,
Please don't take me wrong. I think that trained Christian counselors definitely have a place to help Homosexuals accept who they are and to help families adjust to societal predjudices.

Clergyman CAN really help matters or make matters worse. It all depends on what they are trying to accomplish.

My comment above was about non-trained professionals, though.

Roger that

[Dirtydawg]

Major,
Please don't take me wrong. I think that trained Christian counselors definitely have a place to help Homosexuals accept who they are and to help families adjust to societal predjudices.

Clergyman CAN really help matters or make matters worse. It all depends on what they are trying to accomplish.

It's a clergyman's job to instruct a person in the scriptures, and those scriptures unequivocally state homosexuality as a sin. For a member of the clergy to instruct anthing other is to do the work of the devil and not God. So, you are right that the clergy should help homosexuals (don't know why you capitalized it) accept who they are-a child of Christ and above their sinful, homosexual desires and the clergy should help families adjust to societal pressures-the pressures that try to legitimize sinful behavior by making it seem a cultural and soceital issue instead of a private, spiritual issue.

[champion110]

It's a clergyman's job to instruct a person in the scriptures, and those scriptures unequivocally state homosexuality as a sin. For a member of the clergy to instruct anthing other is to do the work of the devil and not God. So, you are right that the clergy should help homosexuals (don't know why you capitalized it) accept who they are-a child of Christ and above their sinful, homosexual desires and the clergy should help families adjust to societal pressures-the pressures that try to legitimize sinful behavior by making it seem a cultural and soceital issue instead of a private, spiritual issue.

Dirty, SOME Clergymen state that and SOME do not. I am just speaking from experience. Everyone can make their choice about the route that they wish to choose for their child. I would NEVER EVER EVER take that chance with my son, if he came and told me he was Gay. I would love him, help him, and support him in any way that I could. That includes making sure that he knows that he is normal and accepted for who he is.

I realize that some have different views. Everyone has to make their own decision. Hopefully, the child will live through the decision on how the parents handle the situation.

This is a debate that has been on here over and over and we always disagree. That is my option. You certainly have yours. However, it would be irresponsible (and unethical) of me not to state what I did.

[Dirtydawg]

Dirty, SOME Clergymen state that and SOME do not. I am just speaking from experience. Everyone can make their choice about the route that they wish to choose for their child. I would NEVER EVER EVER take that chance with my son, if he came and told me he was Gay. I would love him, help him, and support him in any way that I could. That includes making sure that he knows that he is normal and accepted for who he is.

I realize that some have different views. Everyone has to make their own decision. Hopefully, the child will live through the decision on how the parents handle the situation.

This is a debate that has been on here over and over and we always disagree. That is my option. You certainly have yours. However, it would be irresponsible (and unethical) of me not to state what I did.

If either of my sons turned out to be gay, I would love him as much as if he weren't.