Gun Owners-Heads up!

[MattB]

Well, I don't think you will find many people that want to debate you on this issue. Is it possible that we are all in agreement on something?

It would be the first time since I've been at BBB Hell has just froze over.

[randerizer]

Was watching Thank You For Smoking yesterday. Is the statistic true that gun-related deaths only account for 11,000 deaths per year in the US?

[Guisslapp]

I think it involved the creation of a new dimension created by the sacred geometry of posting a house bill for a thread that was numerated the same as a house bill that relates to another recent - and odd thread.

[Guisslapp]

Was watching Thank You For Smoking yesterday. Is the statistic true that gun-related deaths only account for 11,000 deaths per year in the US?

I believe so, and I believe that number has remained largely unchanged for at least 10 years.

[Brian96]

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/firarmsu.htm

38,000+ firearm deaths in the US in 1994. If it is down to 11k now, then I guess that ban must have done the trick!

[MattB]

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/firarmsu.htm

38,000+ firearm deaths in the US in 1994. If it is down to 11k now, then I guess that ban must have done the trick!

Nah, not that one. That ban outlawed evil features on weapons, high cap. mag's, short buttstocks. I don't know what caused the drop off, but I doubt it was that ban. If you wanted to kill somebody, you could probably do it just as easy with an 11 rd. mag, than a 15 rd. mag. Got to be more to the story, but I must admit that is some good evidence.

[Brian96]

Nah, not that one. That ban outlawed evil features on weapons, high cap. mag's, short buttstocks. I don't know what caused the drop off, but I doubt it was that ban. If you wanted to kill somebody, you could probably do it just as easy with an 11 rd. mag, than a 15 rd. mag. Got to be more to the story, but I must admit that is some good evidence.

The 11,000 figure is bogus. I can't find authoritative recent numbers, but although it appears to have dropped some, it is still well above 30k. And our death by firearm rate is still the highest per capita in the industrialized world.

We clearly have a significant problem, but there is no practical way to deal with it, at least that I see. Even if you completely banned the sale and manufacture of all guns outright there would still be plenty of deaths (and probably more because of the crime wave that such a drastic action would prompt--it would likely make the mob wars of the prohibition era look like a peace delegation).

[MattB]

The 11,000 figure is bogus. I can't find authoritative recent numbers, but although it appears to have dropped some, it is still well above 30k. And our death by firearm rate is still the highest per capita in the industrialized world.

We clearly have a significant problem, but there is no practical way to deal with it, at least that I see. Even if you completely banned the sale and manufacture of all guns outright there would still be plenty of deaths (and probably more because of the crime wave that such a drastic action would prompt--it would likely make the mob wars of the prohibition era look like a peace delegation).

I understand the deaths are a huge problem, but in order to have the freedoms we have, that, along with some other not so nice things, are an unfortunate result. I don't think the problem is guns, but rather the people and culture behind them. Take away guns, and these people will still fight over there turf, drugs,...millwauke's(sp) best, with knives baseball bats or anyother thing they can get ahold of. People who argue that these things would be less lethal are not getting the point.

And if the gov. did one day decided to ban and take all weapons, you are right. The S would HTF for sure.

[AG_jr]

Stupid law. It is like giving cough medicine trying to cure a person with AIDS. Democrats have a long history of being notoriously dumb in this aspect.

ahem...correction...Democrats have a loooong history of being just plain dumb :icon_wink:

[Brian96]

I understand the deaths are a huge problem, but in order to have the freedoms we have, that, along with some other not so nice things, are an unfortunate result. I don't think the problem is guns, but rather the people and culture behind them. Take away guns, and these people will still fight over there turf, drugs,...millwauke's(sp) best, with knives baseball bats or anyother thing they can get ahold of. People who argue that these things would be less lethal are not getting the point.

And if the gov. did one day decided to ban and take all weapons, you are right. The S would HTF for sure.

And people do go after each other with knives, bats, and so forth. Only the injuries are significantly less likely to be lethal.

The fallacy behind the liberty thing is that the other nations that rate similarly highly (some higher some lower) as the US in terms of freedom and liberty (and, yes, there are "measures" for these things) have much lower rates of firearm deaths.

On a side note, barrister, help me understand how the laws have changed with regard to the use of firearms in the commission of a crime. I know about the 3 strikes law with regard to felonies. How does the firearm aspect factor in?

[Guisslapp]

In 1999, 58% of all gun deaths were suicides, and 38% were homicides. (SOURCE: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

[Guisslapp]

That is why that number seems so big. It may take into account suicides.

[Brian96]

That is why that number seems so big. It may take into account suicides.

It also takes into account accidental shootings.

So, as long as people are only shooting themselves, it's okay? If it's right-to-die we are concerned about, the highest suicide rates in the world are in countries with strict gun control legislation. People who want to kill themselves will find a way. Similarly, people who want to kill will find a way, but most of the non-gun alternatives at least give the victim a fighting chance.

[Guisslapp]

It also takes into account accidental shootings.

So, as long as people are only shooting themselves, it's okay? If it's right-to-die we are concerned about, the highest suicide rates in the world are in countries with strict gun control legislation. People who want to kill themselves will find a way. Similarly, people who want to kill will find a way, but most of the non-gun alternatives at least give the victim a fighting chance.

You think gun control will solve many suicides? I was just trying to provide a little more context for the statistics. Like most things, stats can tell different stories depending on how you look at it.

BTW, guns don't kill people - it is the bullets.

[AG_jr]

I have a vintage Vietnam SKS with the original strap, quick lock bayonet, windage sights and everything. My dad has some very old school winchester rifles and a beretta 9mm along with a 12 guage remington and an original colt .45. I would hate to see congress interfere with our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS!!!