+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 31 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 457

Thread: How people get "knowledge"

  1. #1
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    How people get "knowledge"

    Forgive me for my long-windedness on this one. If you like to think about things you may think it is worth reading this, but if you prefer to read the Paw-litics board passively, you may want to skip right over this thread. For those that do not know much about philosophy this discussion centers around the branch of philosophy commonly known as "epistemology."
    Generally, epistemology is the "science" that studies the nature and means of human knowledge. I started out writing this thing myself and then discovered that other people have already put the effort into explaining various portions of this so I have copied and pasted much of other people's explanation in the interest of efficiency. We have actually skipped right over the step of metaphysics to discuss the current topic - I intend to get to metaphysics soon so everyone will see how everything can work together. Although Randerizer has pointed out this is something out of order - good epistemology is based on good metaphysics, I think there is still some value to discussing the topics in the order they have been addressed.

    Short answer to the title of the thread: All knowledge fundamentally comes from sensory perception. Knowledge cannot be intrinsic.


    PROOF


    Roadmap: the proof relies on two central points (1) knowledge is knowledge of reality, and (2) existence has primacy over consciousness. These two points are irrefutable, as set forth below, because epistemology would otherwise be impossible. Regarding the second point - if thought created reality, no science offering guidance to thought would be applicable; consciousness could assert whatever it wished, and reality would have to obey. Regarding the first point - human knowledge, although based on sensory perception, is conceptual in nature. Human knowledge is not automatic or infallible; it can err, distort, or depart from reality. It can do this through ignorance or evasion. Humans therefore have to learn how to use their minds to distinguish truths from falsehoods.

    More to come...
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 02-23-2007 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Two typos

  2. #2
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    I am about to present a lot of material that may take some time to digest, particularly if this is your first time encountering this. I will try to put it out in an orderly fashion, numbering each of the points so that the trail of logic is hopefully a little easier to follow.

  3. #3
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    1. The senses are necessarily valid.
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Champ champion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond reputechampion110 has a reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    35,328

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    Guisslapp,
    When I was teaching Psych, this was a subject that we devoted a lot of time. In fact, I had one test that was totally devoted to this topic. It is interesting stuff, but excuse me if I bow out. Too deep a topic for me to post much and do my work today on my regular job. :icon_wink:

  5. #5
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post
    Guisslapp,
    When I was teaching Psych, this was a subject that we devoted a lot of time. In fact, I had one test that was totally devoted to this topic. It is interesting stuff, but excuse me if I bow out. Too deep a topic for me to post much and do my work today on my regular job. :icon_wink:
    Understandable. If it wasn't for the fact that I have already compiled the "proof" (did over the past two evenings) it would definitely be too much for me to work on today, as well. Obviously the post will be around for a while, so I hope you do come back and share your comments at some time.

    For those of you that have already gotten this far down the thread, I have 7 points in total. Some are longer than others.

  6. #6
    Champ randerizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the roughranderizer is a jewel in the rough randerizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,452

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    want to make sure this stays near the top...

  7. #7
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    2. Sensory qualities represent what is real.
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:06 AM.

  8. #8
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    Everything make sense so far (assuming anyone is really trying to read this stuff today)?

  9. #9
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    3. All valid concepts derive from "percepts."
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:06 AM.

  10. #10
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    Randerizer, where are you at?

  11. #11
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    4. Concepts are objective.
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:06 AM.

  12. #12
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    5. Objectivity is the volitional adherence to reality by the method of logic.
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:07 AM.

  13. #13
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    6. Intrincism is the rejection of objectivity
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:07 AM.

  14. #14
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    7. Reason and Reason alone provides all of Man's basis for knowledge. Man cannot rely on emotion.
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:07 AM.

  15. #15
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In your mind and under your skin
    Posts
    29,875

    Re: How people get "knowledge"

    Thus, Salty, to summarize:

    Reason, Science, and Logic are human beings' only reliable guide to truth.
    Last edited by Guisslapp; 03-20-2007 at 08:08 AM.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts