|
|
As I've said before, I'm not versed in metaphysics, so I don't want to say anything incorrectly. I'm going to do a little research so that I can intelligently respond to your axioms.Originally Posted by Guisslapp
It seems to me that you eventually must identify yourself as a skeptic.
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
No one has proven any superior faculty of cognition to that of reason. There is no reason to believe that any other faculty can provide reliable information to whatever hypothetical questions reason supposedly cannot answer. Feel free to visit the "knowledge" thread where we have been discussing this issue in a little more detail.
Human emotion - definitely fallible
Spiritual revelation - this doesn't warrant a new category (see Human emotion)
Someone else's spiritual revelation - even more unreliable than your own spiritual revelation since you don't know for certain you can trust the other person
The magic 8 ball - Nope, has been wrong before (even with its noncomittal responses)
Palm reader/mystic - doesn't warrant a new category (see someone else's spiritual revelation)
I guess where you and I differ is in the falliability of human logic/reason.
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
Fallibility is certainly there, see the "knowledge" thread. But practiced properly, our ability to reason puts us at more than a stab in the dark, which is essentially what all others would be the equivalent of.
But that doesn't exactly answer the metaphysics question, does it?
In the end, are you saying that "a reasonable person would agree that there is no reason for there to be a beginning to existence, but reasonable people are wrong all the time, so God exists?"
^To echo Randerizer - the fallibility (sp?) is at the level of one's VOLITION making the choice to FOCUS. Reason and the senses are reliable.
I would ask what are you stabbing at? Do you just want to be right while you are on Earth through reason? Where does the religion of logic and reason leave you in the end? Pounding your head against the wall as you search for the answer to everything because you cannot know everything?
From what I have read from you and Guisslap is that "God is beyond human logic and reason, so he must not be real". I will give you that he is beyond our reason and logic.
A true skeptic says truth is unknowable. I say that the concept of truth implies knowledge, and implies a concept that conforms to sensory data. Thus all truths are knowable (since truth implicitly requires someONE who is able to ascertain that a concept conforms to reality). But that is epistemology.
Not a bad idea to become a little more well versed on metaphysics before diving in. This thread needs good discussion.
If you accept that, then you at-least accept that it is arbitrary to believe in God, 100 Gods, a gremlin, a talking tree, etc.
And to base any further thoughts/decisions on an arbitrary claim that you hold as absolute truth is far worse than arbitrary.
Why?
If he is above our reason and logic, how do you distinguish between the Gremlin that created existence, the one God that created existence, the 5000 Gods that jointly created existence, etc.?
If you abandon reason/logic, how are you going to convince me of the difference?
What is my penalty for rejecting logic and reason? Because let's get honest, it would be as hard to be completely objective as it would be live a perfect Christian life. Who forgives you of your logic/reason shortcomings? Or does it even matter?
No need to get forgiveness for your reason (or any of its supposed shortcomings). The penalty of rejecting logic and reason are (1) living a sub-human lifestyle where you denigrate your mind to serving an irrational and whimsical ideal, (2) potential loss of life and enjoyment from self-sacrifice, (3) never really "knowing" anything, and (4) making wrong decisions that cause you lose "value" because your ethics are predicated on the supernatural. These are just for starters.
Point 1 is your opinion. My life is way more fulfilling now that I have God in my life, so you can squash point 2. Points 3 and 4 have quotation marks around their main points, so I will just write those off as horse crap and fluff.
So, when you dont reach your ultimate goal of knowing everything through logic and reason, which you wont, there is no punishment or reward? So, why do we care?
Are you suggesting you were practicing a REASON before accepting God, or are you just suggesting that it is easier to live when you can package all unknown questions into a single answer?
It's also easier on the mind to live in a commune, or to be supported by others, so you don't really have to think for yourself. In many cases, it leads one to deny cause/effect, so you can think blanketedly in fuzzy terms like "helping others" or "social welfare."
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
