What we see/experience when a non deep state guy gets elected. Had the evil obese heifer been elected it would be business as usual right now.Originally Posted by JuBru
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What we see/experience when a non deep state guy gets elected. Had the evil obese heifer been elected it would be business as usual right now.
You are just experiencing the same cognitive dissonance as others that mistakenly believed Trump’s confidence was evidence of his competence and failed to appreciate what a detriment his temperament and mental disorder would be to his ability to work within a constitutional non-authoritarian framework.
Define deep state for me.
Ha! I should’ve kept reading!
That’s circular. You can do better.
In this case, it's when the government's bureaucratic leaders think they are in control of the democracy.
I am much more concerned about the possibility of our large bureaucratic organizations meddling in our elections than a foreign power (assuming the foreign power does not have the keys to the ballot box). Once that happens, we become a government of, by and for the government instead of the people. The IRS scandal and a lot of the stuff they've discovered in the FBI and justice department has shown that some of these high-level bureaucrats already put their own political interests ahead of the voter's interest.
If Trump is impeached for some trumped up garbage and not allowed to finish his term, it means that our government has been successful in overthrowing a free and fair election. This looks like nothing more than retribution for defeating their "chosen" candidate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
What democracy?
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
Pure semantics in this case. You can do better.
We democratically elect representatives. We do not democratically elect bureaucrats.
I can remember Chuck Shumer saying something about Trump will regret messing with the FBI because they have the resources and the will to get back at him. THIS is an acknowledgement of the deep state. Their primary focus has become amassing power (and they've amassed a lot since 9/11) and protecting their own bureaucracy.
It’s absolutely not semantics I. Light of your deep state definition. The difference between a democratic republic and a pure democracy in this case makes all the difference.
We’ve created a ruling body, like it or not.
Oh, and HRC is the President in a pure democracy. How you like them semantics?
Suddenly the word "pure" shows up.
Like it or not, Lois Learner and Andrew McCabe were not elected, but they both used their positions inside of their bureaucracies to either silence what they viewed as the political opposition or to influence an election in a manner greater than just voting as a citizen. This is the deep state.
These are facts. You asked for the definition of the deep state, and I gave it to you and showed you the theory of what causes it. You support it...I do not.
IRS mission statement: The IRS mission is to "provide America's taxpayers top quality service by helping them understand and meet their tax responsibilities and by applying the tax law with integrity and fairness to all."
Nothing in there about silencing opposition political discourse to improve the choice candidate of the bureaucratic leader of the IRS.
FBI mission statment: The mission of the FBI is to protect and defend the United States against terrorist and foreign intelligence threats, to uphold and enforce the criminal laws of the United States, and to provide leadership and criminal justice services to federal, state, municipal, and international agencies and partners; and to perform these responsibilities in a manner that is responsive to the needs of the public and is faithful to the Constitution of the United States.
Nothing in there about slanting investigations to maintain the viability of certain candidates or creating "insurance policies" to be implemented should your candidate not win.
Both examples of the deep state. Bureaucracies operating outside of their missions to influence democratically run elections. Democratic: government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
Pure showed up because you didn't qualify democracy. In a democratic republic, we elect people and delegate our governance to them...like it or not.
What positions do you think we should elect? Director of the FBI? What about his subordinates?
Can't you see how this deep state talking point got Trump power? He's just renamed the establishment (which no one was hiding). Spoiler alert: you can't kill the establishment. Want evidence? Look at the latest budget busting spending bill. Or better yet, John Bolton!
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
Good points. I hope he vetos. I've never cared for Bolton and was disappointed/ puzzled by that one
It is my position that these positions should not be involved in political shenanigans. Stick to the mission statement, and leave elections to the voters (and live with the results).
Do you think Lois Learner was justified in targeting tea party groups? Please say no!
Trump was elected because of Obama's pen and phone governing and because the Republicans talked like they represented their constituents but voted like they did not. They continue to do so today. To me, Democrats govern poorly and Republicans don't govern at all.
If Trump exposes what is going on and gets the repubs to actually govern instead of just whine and "make statements", he will be successful in my book.
Mueller is a deep state operation. Instead of investigating the meddling and seeing where it takes him, he is investigating Trump and attempting to link him back to the meddling. So, if it wasn't Trump colluding with the Russians, I guess we just don't care what happened? Or, we just want to make sure we don't expose anything we might like while doing a real investigation. And, here is something that SHOULD be investigated by an impartial FBI, but we have a special prosecutor investigating it from a political perspective.
Of course I don't think Learner was justified, but that doesn't mean we have some "deep state" conspiracy. Abuse of power is as old as humanity. But again, the "deep state" is nothing more than the establishment. It can't be eliminated any more than poverty can be eliminated.
Didn't the Swamp Drainer himself appoint Mueller? You sure our President is capable of exposing the deep state? He seems to be appointing it.
Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle
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