That's a good job for you. Go see how many you can convert to Christianity.Originally Posted by Champ967
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That's a good job for you. Go see how many you can convert to Christianity.
All people, including Muslims, have the opportunity to accept salvation if they choose to open their hearts and minds to the message. If they are like the religious elites in the time of Jesus, and have committed the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit then they may be beyond saving. HE made it clear that he would speak to “them” only in parables so that only those with ears to hear would be able to receive the message.
I know there are good Muslims because we have missionaries living among them, and those people know the missionaries are Christians in many cases. They don’t show up to work with a grenade or gun. Classic case of the 1% ruining it for the 99%. Also, just like many are Jewish by birth and not in practice, many are Muslim not by practice, but by default. So, even if the Koran says to kill an infidel, every Muslim won’t follow that command.
It's more than a job for me. It's a commandment. (You can find it near the end of Matthew.)That's a good job for you. Go see how many you can convert to Christianity.
But to your point, I've met several Muslim professionals in my (our!) community. Mostly small business owners, including a well-known (at least in his field) architect. One dude is even from Bethlehem (and not the one in Pennsylvania). All conscientious, hard-working types. Courteous and professional. And markedly more conservative in their politics than most of the agno-atheists I've come across.
Will I play a role in converting one or more? Maybe. But until then, it doesnt cost me anything to be nice.
To be certain -- my perception of Islam IS shaped, in part, by articles and other writings like the ones D80 and TT cite. Really. I've read plenty material warning that Islam is an existentialist threat to Western civilization. But my perception of Islam is also shaped by the Muslims I've actually met and interacted with. And they seem to be just ... people. Those two conflicting sources, sort of, cancel out, for me.
Maybe I'm being duped. Shnookered. Hoodwinked. Whatever. But I come from a society that holds sacrosanct the right for one to worship however they please, up to the point (but not before) that it hurts somebody else. And, on a personal level, I'm under strict orders to love my enemy. Not to kill them before they can kill me first.
Ask your friends if they believe mohammed rode a white horse up to heaven. And, he did it more than once. Edit: I forgot that the horse did have wings.
OK, I'll ask. If they do, what does that signify? That they want to kill me?
To be fair, I also adhere to some stories that would be ... improbable, save for my choice to believe in them. There's one about a talking snake, another with a talking bush, another has a talking donkey. Angels of death, fire from heaven, day-long eclipses, walking on water, earthquakes on demand, battles with dragons. I can go on, but you get the idea. I subscribe to all those.
Why should someone's belief in a heavenly horseback ride affect how I treat them?
Do you agree with muslims mutilating little girls genitals and killing innocent people because their god told them to do it? Do you think it was right for the 13 year old girl to be shot in the head because she was going to school? We never hear any muslims speaking out about the evil things they do. They're afraid if they do, they'll come after them. I really don't give a shit about what you believe as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. You can go out everyday and talk to donkeys and snakes and bushes and I don't care and it doesn't bother me one bit. I've been talking to my TV a lot lately hoping those crazy democrats will somehow hear me, but, I'm not really convinced they will.
You really need to read Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel.
Cheese relocation noted.
Of course I do not agree with those acts. You know that, and you know that I know that you know that. To reiterate, people can believe whatever they want, up to the point it harms someone else. But I'm not convinced that Islam is the underlying cause of the evil you describe, based on the following --
1) We know that before the foundation of Islam, people were doing evil things.
2) We know that many non-Muslims do evil things to this day.
3a) We know that not all Muslims commit evil acts like the ones you cite above.
3b) We know that not all professed Muslims are practicing Muslims.
So we can say, categorically, that profession of Islamic belief is not what makes a given individual do evil things. If you think there's a case that Islamic faith corresponds, in the aggregate, to an increased risk of or propensity for evil, then let's talk.
After all, not everybody who uses tobacco will get cancer, but those who do will substantially increase their chances. Would you say that a profession of Islam increases one's risk of committing evil acts?
Oh yes, those evil Amish! Remember when 19 of them drove their horse-drawn carriages into the World Trade Center! Poor ole horses got a bloody nose, but otherwise, no harm done.
The Amish are really good hardworking people. I met some of them when I was in southwest Missouri a few years ago.
The point was about ascribing the characteristics of small population to a much larger population. Not about who is violent.
But I think you knew that.
Yes he did, no it was totally sufficient, no it doesn't, no indeed.
Good -- common ground.
I sometimes think my brand of humor goes under-appreciated 'round here.
Originally Posted by dawg80
Oh yes, those evil Amish! Remember when 19 of them drove their horse-drawn carriages into the World Trade Center! Poor ole horses got a bloody nose, but otherwise, no harm done.
I loved it!
I speculate you've heard from others, at least once, that it's sometimes difficult to tell when you're being serious, and when you're joking.
I know this, because I've heard it too.
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