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Originally Posted by Soonerdawg
Right back at ya chief!! I think it's great what your doing for your daughters, I wish more dads were like that, HOWEVER IF you shoot a guy for having sex I hope you get whats coming to ya. ALSO if thats your definition of a slut, boy this country is full of them.
With all due respect, either you can't read or you don't comprehend well. Please find anywhere in this thread where anybody said it was okay to shoot that boy.
And, yes, the country is full of sluts. And, yes, I believe any girl who defies their father's very explicit instructions and admonitions about boys in their bedroom is a slut. You can define slut however you want to, but that is mine.
I don't see that a girl is a slut because she defies her father's instructions and lets a boy into her bedroom. She's certainly not following the rules of the house, but I don't think that not following the father's instructions has anything to do the term in use.
Now, if the father caught them going at it on the washing machine... then we'd be talking.
I guess that's my Tech education hard at work... Seriously, I read where you called the kid a punk, she's a slut yada, yada, yada, you said yourself you dont feel bad for the punk being shot and wouldnt have felt sorry for the SLUT EITHER. Sorry if I took your words liket it was ok. I find it hard to believe that a guy who loves his children as much as you apparently do wouldnt feel bad if he shoot his child. I also understand you probably wouldnt go to that exteme, but in your own words "you dont know what you would do."
sooner,
I respect you as a man and as a father, I think teen sex is wrong and I think the fact that your fighting the fight is awesome, I just think what THIS GUY did was extreme. Keep fighting the fight and hope you get some more recruits in the battle.
You are right that I am making some huge assumptions. If he were in her room looking at her tennis trophies, I would be upset, but would remind them very harshly of that being in her room is taboo. In that case, she would be disobedient.I don't see that a girl is a slut because she defies her father's instructions and lets a boy into her bedroom. She's certainly not following the rules of the house, but I don't think that not following the father's instructions has anything to do the term in use.
Now, if the father caught them going at it on the washing machine... then we'd be talking.
I'm assuming it took something a lot more than that to get him that upset. It may have even been that drugs were involved. Who knows.
The reason I say that defying her father's instructions, again assumes this man had done what fathers should do, and that is to make it absolutely clear that no boys are allowed in the girl's room, that he is not to touch her privates and that the wrath of the father will abide upon both the boy and the girl if the rule is broken. That is a huge assumption on my part, but if he did make it clear, and if the boy and girl were in the mating position or disengaging from the mating position with the father came in the room, then the girl is a slut and the boy is a punk. The father should let his "gentleness be known to all" in that situation, but when the father fails the test and commits a horrible crime that should be punished to the fullest, I still don't fell sorry for the boy. They took that chance when he got into her pants. (Yuck. I sound like Johnny)
Don't forget that my kids read this site, and I want this point driven home to them with all clarity.
Fair enough.
By the way, if I shot either one of them, I would feel horribly about my criminal actions. I didn't do the shooting, and again, would hope that I would not shoot anybody for any reason other than self defense or defense of others. Since I didn't shoot him, I don't feel a thing for that punk, again with the assumption that he was made aware of the rule and of the consequences.
Here is the local papers report of what is in the probable cause affidavit:
http://www.nwanews.com/bcdr/News/52443/
I do not feel sorry for that punk.Guzman and the girl had been dating for the past four months. The girl had told her mother Guzman had been sneaking into the house at night. The two were allowed to continue dating, but Guzman was told not to come to the residence without being chaperoned, the affidavit states.
Guzman came to the home that morning while his girlfriend’s parents were away. He parked his car on a dirt road about a quarter of a mile from the home, and his girlfriend picked him up. They then went back to her home, according to court documents.
Reed told BCSO investigator Jeremy Felton that a friend called and told him Guzman might be at the residence because the friend had seen Guzman’s car parked down the road from Reed’s home.
According to court documents, Reed went home and got a pool stick from his garage before entering the house. Reed went to his daughter’s room, where he found Guzman hiding in the closet, the affidavit states. Reed claims he yelled at Guzman to get out of the house. Guzman began kicking him in the legs, so Reed began hitting Guzman with the pool stick, according to court documents. Reed claims he left the room and retrieved a loaded gun from his bedroom and came back toward the room and yelled for Guzman to get out. Reed could not get the bedroom door to open, court documents state.
Reed claims he fired warning shots high up and also fired shots toward the bottom of the door, according to the affidavit. Reed backed away from the door after hearing Guzman yell he had been shot, the affidavit states. Reed put the gun back into the nightstand drawer, then waited on the porch for deputies to arrive, according to court documents.
The daughter told Felton her father found her boyfriend in the closet and began hitting Guzman with the pool stick. The affidavit claims that while being hit, Guzman kept saying “ Stop, I’ll leave, ” and her father kept hitting him.
After being shot, Guzman told his girlfriend he could not feel or move his legs, according to court documents. Guzman was taken to Freeman Hospital in Joplin, Mo., where he underwent surgery to remove a bullet lodged in his spinal cord.
According to the probable-cause affidavit, three of Guzman’s vertebrae were fractured. Doctors do not expect him to regain any feeling or mobility from the waist down.
Reed was released from the Benton County Jail after posting $ 150, 000 bond. He is scheduled to appear at 8: 30 a. m. Sept. 10 for an arraignment before Circuit Judge David Clinger.
Nor do I. I also don't feel sorry for the daughter having to watch all of that go down, seeing as how she created the situation. Now that we have a record of went down, I will agree that what the daughter did was slutty.
I think risking your daughter's life and paralyzing her boyfriend is overreacting in a HUGE way to the situation. I hope they throw the book at the father. Besides ruining this boy's life, he could have KILLED him and KILLED his daughter.
I hope kids wait to have sex until they are older, but that would not have caused me to endanger my child's life.
I second the slut and punk nominations. The affidavit definatley sheds some light on what was being assumed. Dad is still an idiot, but I would have done my best to beat down that little $hit myself. For those of you who do not have daughters, don't judge Sooner. I can tesitify, you see things a little differently after raising a female child for a few years.
Sooner, I know you've had to defend yourself on here, but I'd like to make a simple reminder. The very same book that contains the Old Testament also contains the New Testament.
In humility, I'd like to remind you of the woman caught in the act? Do you not feel this very same situation applies here? Jesus didn't ask, "where's the dude?" I will. By saying that you do not feel sorry for the punk, you are also implying that you wouldn't feel sorry for the girl either. They WERE doing the same act, right? She is old enough to understand the magnitude of her decisions and she was not only consentual, but she was an assessory.
Absolutely. In my opinion, the girl was even more at fault. She is the one opening the window, both literally and figuratively. I thought I made it clear that I don't feel sorry for the girl. However, the girl is still walking, so in this instance, it is the punk that is getting most of the attention here, not the slut.
Let's put it this way. I can't stop my children from having sex. I can hold them accountable. I can make it clear it is dead wrong. I can make it clear that there are extreme consequences.
Finally, I want to emphasize that I really do have compassion for these kids. If this were to have happened in Ruston, and whether I knew the parents or not, I would be grieving with them now. It is a very tragic situation. I also know that the actions of the children can happen to my family as well as anybody else that has teenaged children. My purpose here is to raise the point that we need to be teaching our children that teen sex is not a little deal. It is a huge deal. If we don't make it a big deal, then they won't think its a big deal.
It's not enough to just hope. In fact, the only "hope" we have of them waiting is to be very, very pro-active. Even then it is probably just a slither of hope. I'm just going down fighting.
Finally, I again want to emphasize that I will not disown my children if they have sex. Those who know me and my family know that I don't over protect my children. I also believe that we are delaying the maturing of our children by dragging out high school too long and insisting they finish college before they marry. There is a fire burning in them that I believe was put in there by God, and we are asking them to fight the most powerful urge there is until they are 22 to 24 years old. They have to fight this while surrounded by sex almost every waking hour of the day.
I'm not stupid. I know what is going on out there. But, that is why I try to make it as clear as I can and, sometimes, as crude as I can. Teen sex is a release. It is not love.
I couldn't agree with you more, brother. The only thing I disagree with you on is feeling sorry for the kids. While I don't feel sympathy for the girl for having to deal with these consequences, I actually DO feel sympathy for the boy. The ONLY crimes IMO that warrant death are 1) Murder 2) Rape 3) Child Molestation. This father was obviously aiming to kill. He tried to force open the door, and realized the boy was sitting against the bottom of the door to keep him from getting in. THAT is why he fired at the bottom of the door. Those were not warning shots. That's why I tend to feel a little sympathy for the boy, because he was performing a natural instinct, both in doing whatever with the girl, AND protecting the two of them.
You are completely right about society pushing our kids to the breaking point. There is more emphasis on higher education now, and many feel it is nearly impossible to accomplish that while also being married/having kids. I don't have an adequate solution to that problem.
It was an EXTREME case of overreaction by the father. I am not even borderline on this. It was WAY excessive to get a GUN and start shooting in your home. I feel sorry for the girl, the boy, AND the rest of the families/friends involved. Firing a gun in your home for ANY reason besides self defense is stupid and dangerous. Now, both these kid's lives have been seriously impacted. The boy is paralyzed (he was 19 for freakin sakes) and the girl has experienced something WAYYYYYYYYYY worse than having sex. The family has lost the father to prison, most likely. Actually, the last thing is the only thing on here that might have been good. Obviously, the father cared more about the virginity of his daughter than he did his daughter's life.
I agree with Sooner that kids should wait to have sex, but it is way down on my list compared to making sure they are safe.
My advice to my son was to wait. He got no mixed signals about that. He, also, knew every bit of safe sex information that I could give him - just in case. He is 19 now, disease free, and ALIVE. He is not a virgin, but he is a sweet, kind, loving, strong, and GOOD young man. I could not be more proud.
I don't have a daughter and, maybe, I would feel differently if I did. I can guarantee you that I would not grab a gun and shoot at her boyfriend OR at her, though.
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