How about some Ron Paul love?

[Bigdog13]

Yeah, reformation... but, the Arabs back during the Crusades won the land fair and square, the rest of us need to get over it. It was their land... Unless we want to recognize the reformation of Israel as another Crusade ordained by God (and the resulting fighting that has existed since), then it is and was out of the means and bounds of any other nation to force a nation into existence at a place where no war was fought.

You point is what TT? The world had NO idea or ANY reason to believe Hitler was doing anything bad like that... it is a very good stretch, in my opinion, of blaming the Holocaust on the complatency of the rest of the world. I've made clear I blame the world for the war for ignoring Hitler, but I do not blame the world for this. The world was horrible to Germany post-WW1. So SOME concessions could and should have been made as Hitler rose, but just SOME. Not as many that did... No other country wanted the remaining Jewish population in their countries as many were, and still are, anti-Semetic, so they FORCED another RECOGNIZED country and it's people to move to make way for them because it is "their" land.

It is not our countries duty to make the Bible be true. A majority of the world does not believe in Christianity, so nor the Bible. We have no right to tell them what to do.

But the Romans kicked the Jews out to begin with which allowed the Arabs to take over the area. The "Palestinians" weren't there first. If I remember correctly the name Palestine was given to the place after the Romans defeated Israel because the Roman emporer didn't even want the name Israel to be spoken.

I completely agree it is not our countries duty to make The Bible come true. It's Gods duty, and it came true. The Bible said it would happen and it did. Whether we backed it or not was irrelevant. Again, I know many would disagree with me but there was nothing anyone could do about it. From that sense it really wouldn't have mattered whether we supported the reformation of Israel or not. It was going to happen.

Although this entire topic is out of place in this thread.

I heard Paul beat Rudy tonight. Is this correct? If so, that's at least something to build on. I still think he doesn't have a snowballs chance but I am hoping for a high showing here or there. It would be VERY cool if he could snag a state or two because that would force the party to move a little bit in his direction which the GOP really needs to do.

[MattB]

I completely agree it is not our countries duty to make The Bible come true. It's Gods duty, and it came true. The Bible said it would happen and it did. Whether we backed it or not was irrelevant. Again, I know many would disagree with me but there was nothing anyone could do about it. .

Good then.....Since God obviously had it under control then we don't have to send anymore aid to them and can GTFO of their business. Sounds like our work is done.

[Bigdog13]

Good then.....Since God obviously had it under control then we don't have to send anymore aid to them and can GTFO of their business. Sounds like our work is done.

Wow. I sense some anger and even a little sarcasm there Matt. Did I piss you off?

[MattB]

Wow. I sense some anger and even a little sarcasm there Matt. Did I piss you off?

Haha, no I'm not ticked.:icon_wink: Just not the biggest fan of Israel. (nor anyone in that region for that matter)

[JuBru]

But the Romans kicked the Jews out to begin with which allowed the Arabs to take over the area. The "Palestinians" weren't there first. If I remember correctly the name Palestine was given to the place after the Romans defeated Israel because the Roman emporer didn't even want the name Israel to be spoken.

I completely agree it is not our countries duty to make The Bible come true. It's Gods duty, and it came true. The Bible said it would happen and it did. Whether we backed it or not was irrelevant. Again, I know many would disagree with me but there was nothing anyone could do about it. From that sense it really wouldn't have mattered whether we supported the reformation of Israel or not. It was going to happen.

Although this entire topic is out of place in this thread.

I heard Paul beat Rudy tonight. Is this correct? If so, that's at least something to build on. I still think he doesn't have a snowballs chance but I am hoping for a high showing here or there. It would be VERY cool if he could snag a state or two because that would force the party to move a little bit in his direction which the GOP really needs to do.

Rome didn't kick them out, they were just put under Roman rule. Palestine is just another name for what was already there. Christianty and Islam kicked the Jews out.

It happening naturally and us forcing it are two different things.

Yes, RP beat Guiliani in Iowa. RP had 10% and Guiliani had 4%
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri...ults/state/#IA

[Bigdog13]

Haha, no I'm not ticked.:icon_wink: Just not the biggest fan of Israel. (nor anyone in that region for that matter)

In high school I was in a class called advanced social science problems. We were asked to write a paper about what our solution would be for the "middle east problem." I typed "There is no solution" on a blank piece of paper and turned it in. I got a "C" on the paper but an "A" in the class. We can't fix the middle east's problems. It is imposssible so why try?

[Bigdog13]

Rome didn't kick them out, they were just put under Roman rule. Palestine is just another name for what was already there. Christianty and Islam kicked the Jews out.

It happening naturally and us forcing it are two different things.

Yes, RP beat Guiliani in Iowa. RP had 10% and Guiliani had 4%
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri...ults/state/#IA

That's not true, Rus. Look it up. Rome defeated them (pre-Jesus), they revolted against Rome (not long after Jesus died) and the Roman emperor got rid of them.

[JuBru]

That's not true, Rus. Look it up. Rome defeated them (pre-Jesus), they revolted against Rome (not long after Jesus died) and the Roman emperor got rid of them.

They were still there, mostly located in Galilee. The Mishnah and part of the Talmud was written there... in Israel.


Looking it up, they never really left... Just, as with the rest of the world, their land was conquered by others, who took control...

It's easier to just blame the British.

[longdawgview]

They were still there, mostly located in Galilee. The Mishnah and part of the Talmud was written there... in Israel.


Looking it up, they never really left... Just, as with the rest of the world, their land was conquered by others, who took control...

It's easier to just blame the British.

I totally agree with you Rus-La, the UN had no business establishing Isarel after WWII.

Can you imagine all the superpowers instructing you to leave your homeland because of something that happened thousands of miles away and had nothing to do with you.

I understand the Palestinians plight, and I see where all their hatred of the Westerners comes from. Isarel does nothing to help the problem except excite more hatred from the Palestinians.

As a Christian, I believe that GOD'S chosen people are Christians not just Jews. The kingdom of God is within you if you are a Christian. It is not a piece of land where people are fighting constantly.

I have to disagree with the "fulfillment of prophecy" falsehood. Christ established his Kingdom (the Church) when he ascended into Heaven not when the UN established Isarel.

[Bigdog13]

I totally agree with you Rus-La, the UN had no business establishing Isarel after WWII.

Can you imagine all the superpowers instructing you to leave your homeland because of something that happened thousands of miles away and had nothing to do with you.

I understand the Palestinians plight, and I see where all their hatred of the Westerners comes from. Isarel does nothing to help the problem except excite more hatred from the Palestinians.

As a Christian, I believe that GOD'S chosen people are Christians not just Jews. The kingdom of God is within you if you are a Christian. It is not a piece of land where people are fighting constantly.

I have to disagree with the "fulfillment of prophecy" falsehood. Christ established his Kingdom (the Church) when he ascended into Heaven not when the UN established Isarel.

What you posted and what the Bible says are not the same. The Bible DID say the nation of Israel would be scattered and then reformed. It's not a falsehood. It's in black and white. Now if you don't believe in the Bible thats a whole other thing. But if you say you do, it's in there and it happened. There is no getting around that, regardless of what you think of Israel. It's clear too, it's not like some weird interpretation.

No one on this board said or insinuated that Christs kingdom was established when the UN established Israel, or was based upon Israel. (I really don't even know where that comment came from, left field?)

[JuBru]

What you posted and what the Bible says are not the same. The Bible DID say the nation of Israel would be scattered and then reformed. It's not a falsehood. It's in black and white. Now if you don't believe in the Bible thats a whole other thing. But if you say you do, it's in there and it happened.

Again, something that is FORCED to happen is not the same as something meant to happen.

If it was meant to be, it would have happened. It was forced to happen, because it wasn't happening.

[Bigdog13]

Again, something that is FORCED to happen is not the same as something meant to happen.

If it was meant to be, it would have happened. It was forced to happen, because it wasn't happening.

No. It is not relevant how it happened. It was going to happen whether the UN did it or not. I personally don't even think the League of Nations or UN should even exist so I don't want them doing anything including establishing Israel. What I'm saying is the point is moot. It was going to happen. How it happened is unimportant. The Bible said it would happen and it did. The Bible didn't give details on the League of Nations or UN. It just said it was going to happen and again, it did.

[JuBru]

No. It is not relevant how it happened. It was going to happen whether the UN did it or not. I personally don't even think the League of Nations or UN should even exist so I don't want them doing anything including establishing Israel. What I'm saying is the point is moot. It was going to happen. How it happened is unimportant. The Bible said it would happen and it did. The Bible didn't give details on the League of Nations or UN. It just said it was going to happen and again, it did.

It does matter how it happened... People in government got tired of it not happening yet, especially when they didn't want to welcome any Jews to their own countries, so they FORCED another country and it's people to accept them and let them take over the country and make their own government... There were things at work here that has nothing to do with the prophecy or whatever you want to call it...

[JuBru]

Amazing what debate Ron Paul creates at times huh?

[Guisslapp]

Reminds me of the joke of the marine who punched out the atheist professor.