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Thread: The Bible......

  1. #736
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible......

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtydawg View Post
    Potato/Potatoe. It's the same thing. Either way, the non-Christian who's seriously a non-Christian doesn't accept Christian logic.
    I agree 100%. My assertion is that logic/apologetics/philosophy serves a purpose to edify the church. It would also serve to sway those who are not "seriously non-Christian".

    Studying logic is a value to Christians because it enables us to see when the attacks on Christianity are illogical.

    Thankfully Guiss and Rand have inspired me to seriously study philosophy and logic...
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  2. #737
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    Re: The Bible......

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Sort of. The concept is called progressive revelation. This is why the writers of the OT and the writers of the NT seem to (and, if the concept is correct, they DO) view God from a different vantage point.

    Why God choses to do the things he does are often beyond my ability to grasp. Sometimes he tells us in Scripture why He does one thing or another, but that's not always the case. Theodicies are good for apologetics, but they can make for some very sketchy doctrine.

    Spin, have you ever heard of a philosophy professor from Notre Dame named Plantinga. He makes my brain hurt, but I figure you might enjoy his writing. He doesn't (at least in what I've read) propose to prove one thing or another. His aim is to "defeat" the "defeaters" of those who attack theism. He's very well respected in the field by those who agree and disagree with him alike.

    I think he might by right up your alley.

    Here's a site with some links to a few of his papers: http://philofreligion.homestead.com/plantingapage.html

    I don't necessarily buy his epistemology, but it's interesting reading none the less.
    Spin, you still reading this thread?
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  3. #738
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible......

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Spin, you still reading this thread?
    Yes......
    I'll be back when I've finished frying fish elsewhere. :icon_wink:
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  4. #739
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible......

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinoza View Post
    Yes......
    I'll be back when I've finished frying fish elsewhere. :icon_wink:
    I'll bump this for my buddy Spinoza.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  5. #740
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible......

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Sort of. The concept is called progressive revelation. This is why the writers of the OT and the writers of the NT seem to (and, if the concept is correct, they DO) view God from a different vantage point.

    Why God choses to do the things he does are often beyond my ability to grasp. Sometimes he tells us in Scripture why He does one thing or another, but that's not always the case. Theodicies are good for apologetics, but they can make for some very sketchy doctrine.

    Spin, have you ever heard of a philosophy professor from Notre Dame named Plantinga. He makes my brain hurt, but I figure you might enjoy his writing. He doesn't (at least in what I've read) propose to prove one thing or another. His aim is to "defeat" the "defeaters" of those who attack theism. He's very well respected in the field by those who agree and disagree with him alike.

    I think he might by right up your alley.

    Here's a site with some links to a few of his papers: http://philofreligion.homestead.com/plantingapage.html

    I don't necessarily buy his epistemology, but it's interesting reading none the less.
    The short answer......
    I never heard of Plantigna prior to your above post.

    The longer answer......
    I did not open your hyperlink and pursue your suggestion because of Plantigna's Notre Dame connection. I consider myself to be an extremely tolerant and reasonable fellow.
    But I have harbored a most intolerant and irrational abhorence for all things associated with Notre Dame since a day that has lived in infamy in my mind since 1967.

    On that particular day......
    The U of I Rugby team defeated Notre Dame soundly in a match played at South Bend during a virtual blizzard. I was the only rugger on either side who eschewed sweats and opted to wear the tradional shorts. It was one hell of a match in the best tradition of Rugby.
    But after the match......
    The Notre Dame TEAM (TO A MAN) defiled their status as Rugby gentlemen, and egregiously violated RUGBY TRADITION.

    It has been @ 20 years since I last concerned myself with men playing games best left IMNHO to the interest of children. But I still STUPIDLY relish each moment when ANY Notre Dame team is defeated by ANYONE.

    Is that pathetic or what?

    And then came Johnny......
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  6. #741
    Champ Spinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant futureSpinoza has a brilliant future Spinoza's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible......

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Sort of. The concept is called progressive revelation. This is why the writers of the OT and the writers of the NT seem to (and, if the concept is correct, they DO) view God from a different vantage point.

    Why God choses to do the things he does are often beyond my ability to grasp. Sometimes he tells us in Scripture why He does one thing or another, but that's not always the case. Theodicies are good for apologetics, but they can make for some very sketchy doctrine.

    Spin, have you ever heard of a philosophy professor from Notre Dame named Plantinga. He makes my brain hurt, but I figure you might enjoy his writing. He doesn't (at least in what I've read) propose to prove one thing or another. His aim is to "defeat" the "defeaters" of those who attack theism. He's very well respected in the field by those who agree and disagree with him alike.

    I think he might by right up your alley.

    Here's a site with some links to a few of his papers: http://philofreligion.homestead.com/plantingapage.html

    I don't necessarily buy his epistemology, but it's interesting reading none the less.
    Only for you, Johnny......
    I opened your Notre dame hyperlink.
    And I thank you for the opportunity to partially erase a DUMB shadow from a foolish path of ignorance.

    Plantigna may not be completely up my alley......
    But from what I have read today of his manner of thought......
    He appears to be fellow I could contentedly eat the discarded garbage of others with, before sharing a cheap bottle of wine and a refrigerator box, while waiting for Morpheus to stir our individual dreams.

    I have printed Plantigna's When Faith and Reason Clash essay......
    And I will make copies of it tomorrow.
    Several mornings each week I breakfast with a collection of other retired fellows who share my need to exercise their little grey cells as often as possible.
    After each has had the oportunity to review this essay......
    I anticipate a lively discussion.

    BTW......
    One of my chums previously worked as an editor for Encyclopedia Britannica.
    My choice of puctuation routinely risks his blood pressue.
    Wait until he reads Plantigna!

    Cheers.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said...... But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  7. #742
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible......

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinoza View Post
    The short answer......
    I never heard of Plantigna prior to your above post.

    The longer answer......
    I did not open your hyperlink and pursue your suggestion because of Plantigna's Notre Dame connection. I consider myself to be an extremely tolerant and reasonable fellow.
    But I have harbored a most intolerant and irrational abhorence for all things associated with Notre Dame since a day that has lived in infamy in my mind since 1967.

    On that particular day......
    The U of I Rugby team defeated Notre Dame soundly in a match played at South Bend during a virtual blizzard. I was the only rugger on either side who eschewed sweats and opted to wear the tradional shorts. It was one hell of a match in the best tradition of Rugby.
    But after the match......
    The Notre Dame TEAM (TO A MAN) defiled their status as Rugby gentlemen, and egregiously violated RUGBY TRADITION.

    It has been @ 20 years since I last concerned myself with men playing games best left IMNHO to the interest of children. But I still STUPIDLY relish each moment when ANY Notre Dame team is defeated by ANYONE.

    Is that pathetic or what?

    And then came Johnny......


    That is good stuff Spin.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

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