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Thread: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become President

  1. #151
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by mildawg View Post
    They argued that there was no legal or moral reason for the hand over the heart. They were wrong. Then, they said the US Code was not founded in law. They were wrong. Then, they said that Congress had no right to make laws like that. Wrong again.

    That's why I now have the majority of the flaming liberals on ignore. I'm tired of arguing with amateurs; life's too short to waste on people who ought to the guests of honor on a telethon.
    I don't think I've been shown wrong yet. I've potentially been misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure EVERYONE but Mildawg knew what my argument was from the beginning.

    I just think it is funny that I am considered a "flaming liberal" for arguing that the government should get the $@#* out of all kinds of things. Talk about an "amateur".

  2. #152
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Congress has abused its "commerce clause" power to regulate things that it was never intended to regulate under the Constitution. Just because Congress has done it, it doesn't make it okay.
    If you stretched it far enough, you might be able to make a case for Congress choosing a national speed limit for interstates from the Commerce Clause. Even if you gave them the Commerce Clause, how would you even begin to argue that Congress passing the law that is at issue is Constitutionally legitimate? Unless this is somehow "general welfare" related, I just don't see it.

  3. #153
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by mildawg View Post
    Where do you think the Federal speed limit of 70 miles and hour comes from? Sure, each state can decide what the actual speed will be, but the Federal limit came from Congress. Is that in the Constitution?
    No it is not, so according to the Constitution, that is why the STATES should decide. Thank you for proving my point.

  4. #154
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by AG_jr View Post
    No it is not, so according to the Constitution, that is why the STATES should decide. Thank you for proving my point.
    What point would that be? That you, like your brother, can spin the issue and change the subject to give the appearance that you are correct? Well, you aren't. You do understand that most state laws started out as federal laws and were later turned over to the states' jurisdiction? Things like the speed limit--which was my example because it's one that anyone could understand--was a federally mandated limit and was turned over to the states in 1995.

    Read both links below, from official US Government websites and not from wikipedia. You're arguing states rights vs. congressional authorities. What in the hell are you talking about? Surely you and guiss can come up with something a little better. Let me boil down the whole argument, about which I am 100% correct, by the way:

    1. Obama is a jackass for not following the prescribed customs and courtesies associated with the US Flag and playing of the National Anthem. The second link below is a US Senate document that explains the C&C associated with the national flag and anthem. You'd think, as a member of the Senate, that he could abide by them.

    2. The C&C for conduct during the playing of the anthem was mandated by Congress in 1942 and was codified under Title 36 of the US Code. It is not mandated by the states, as you claim it should be. And Congress OBVIOUSLY has the Constitutional authority to pass such laws, or someone would have found this to be unconstitutional.

    3. Civilians CANNOT be punished for not following the prescribed C&C. They can be punished under state law for misuse/desecration of the flag if deemed disrespectful, but not for acting like a jackass during the anthem. They can, however, be reserving a place in line for themselves at the end of someone's fist.

    Now, read the below links and then read the above 3 points. Next, go back through any of my posts and find where I've said anything different. I'm done with another one of you.


    http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

    http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf
    Last edited by mildawg; 03-02-2008 at 05:57 AM.

  5. #155
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Mildawg and his ilk is the reason why I support the ACLU. Sure, the ACLU represents a lot of people I don't really care about but it is better to expand the scope of personal liberties than restrain them. Defending personal liberties is what true conservatism is all about.

    People who cannot tolerate different viewpoints need therapy.

    Regarding the 70 mph speed limits, my understanding is that the Federal government does *not* ACTUALLY pass a law mandating the speed limits. What it does is tell the States that if they don't pass laws limiting speeds to such and such then they will not receive federal highway funds.

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  6. #156
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by mildawg View Post
    What point would that be? That you, like your brother, can spin the issue and change the subject to give the appearance that you are correct? Well, you aren't. You do understand that most state laws started out as federal laws and were later turned over to the states' jurisdiction? Things like the speed limit--which was my example because it's one that anyone could understand--was a federally mandated limit and was turned over to the states in 1995.

    Read both links below, from official US Government websites and not from wikipedia. You're arguing states rights vs. congressional authorities. What in the hell are you talking about? Surely you and guiss can come up with something a little better. Let me boil down the whole argument, about which I am 100% correct, by the way:

    1. Obama is a jackass for not following the prescribed customs and courtesies associated with the US Flag and playing of the National Anthem. The second link below is a US Senate document that explains the C&C associated with the national flag and anthem. You'd think, as a member of the Senate, that he could abide by them.

    2. The C&C for conduct during the playing of the anthem was mandated by Congress in 1942 and was codified under Title 36 of the US Code. It is not mandated by the states, as you claim it should be. And Congress OBVIOUSLY has the Constitutional authority to pass such laws, or someone would have found this to be unconstitutional.

    3. Civilians CANNOT be punished for not following the prescribed C&C. They can be punished under state law for misuse/desecration of the flag if deemed disrespectful, but not for acting like a jackass during the anthem. They can, however, be reserving a place in line for themselves at the end of someone's fist.

    Now, read the below links and then read the above 3 points. Next, go back through any of my posts and find where I've said anything different. I'm done with another one of you.


    http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

    http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf
    1. Whether or not Obama is a "jackass", is merely opinion.
    2. Congress obviously AFFORDED itself the authority to pass such a law. And I, for one, feel that this issue falls under freedom of speech, and most certainly find a law requiring me to place my hand over my heart extrememly unconstitutional. I believe where I choose to place my hand during the national anthem should be just that...A CHOICE.

    And I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Mr. Guiss and I are brothers, but you are sadly mistaken, just like your opinion that the government can do no wrong.

  7. #157
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by mildawg View Post

    2. The C&C for conduct during the playing of the anthem was mandated by Congress in 1942 and was codified under Title 36 of the US Code. It is not mandated by the states, as you claim it should be. And Congress OBVIOUSLY has the Constitutional authority to pass such laws, or someone would have found this to be unconstitutional.
    Wrong! Who would have standing to bring such a suit? Only someone that was arrested for not following the C&C, which under this "law" can not happen, because it doesn't say "must." So how else could this case come up. The Supreme Court won't render advisory opinions. There must be a true case and controversy.

    The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." This Amendment used to mean something to conservatives. If it isn't something that is provided in Article 1, Congress does not have the authority to regulate it. How many Congressmen/women do you think actually bother to consider this Constitutional limitation before voting on bills? Very few, I would guess, ever since your brand of neoconservatism has taken over the GOP.
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  8. #158
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Wrong! Who would have standing to bring such a suit? Only someone that was arrested for not following the C&C, which under this "law" can not happen, because it doesn't say "must." So how else could this case come up. The Supreme Court won't render advisory opinions. There must be a true case and controversy.
    . Exactly. I suggested earlier that if anyone ever TRIED to enforce the C&C, it would (or should) be held unconstitutional. In any case, there absolutely must be a test case for the courts to consider.

  9. #159
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." This Amendment used to mean something to conservatives. If it isn't something that is provided in Article 1, Congress does not have the authority to regulate it. How many Congressmen/women do you think actually bother to consider this Constitutional limitation before voting on bills? Very few, I would guess, ever since your brand of neoconservatism has taken over the GOP.
    Frankly, I'm surprised more of the Republicans aren't taking on Mildawg over this. My guess is that most on this board don't find Mildawg's interpretation that the Constitution gave Congress a blank check to pass any laws it wants to pass offensive enough to step on the toes of a fellow "conservative."

    Then there's TylerTechsas.. Maybe those two neo-cons are brothers?

    The worst part of this is that Mildawg is actually someone CONNECTED to the government. It's quite a shame.

  10. #160
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    I still like mildawg's "YOU DONT GET TO CHOOSE" line. Later on he even admits its a law you cant get arrested over, meaning its not really a law, more of a recommendation. Meaning you DO get to choose. However, the deeper underlying subtext of mildawg's line is that he wants America to be of one mind, where everyone thinks and acts the same, and power is given to symbols, and any kind of questioning of leadership is punished.... sounds more like something else, and not America.

    The funny part is that I do put my hand over my heart for the Anthem. I just dont see what the big deal is if a politician doesnt (like HW Bush), or if anyone else doesnt, because it isnt required. "My way or the Highway" thinking is why W's approval is down to 25%. Things arent always black and white, in fact they rarely are. Not putting your hand over your heart does NOT equal unamerican. Being against the war in Iraq does NOT equal being for terrorism. Things like that, etc.
    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

  11. #161
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by randerizer View Post
    I don't think I've been shown wrong yet. I've potentially been misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure EVERYONE but Mildawg knew what my argument was from the beginning.

    I just think it is funny that I am considered a "flaming liberal" for arguing that the government should get the $@#* out of all kinds of things. Talk about an "amateur".
    I agree. You are NOT a "flaming liberal"!!!

    Flaming? Maybe. But NOT a flaming Liberal!!

  12. #162
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by randerizer View Post
    Frankly, I'm surprised more of the Republicans aren't taking on Mildawg over this. My guess is that most on this board don't find Mildawg's interpretation that the Constitution gave Congress a blank check to pass any laws it wants to pass offensive enough to step on the toes of a fellow "conservative."

    Then there's TylerTechsas.. Maybe those two neo-cons are brothers?

    The worst part of this is that Mildawg is actually someone CONNECTED to the government. It's quite a shame.
    I'll claim Mildawg as a brother any day.

  13. #163
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by randerizer View Post
    Frankly, I'm surprised more of the Republicans aren't taking on Mildawg over this. My guess is that most on this board don't find Mildawg's interpretation that the Constitution gave Congress a blank check to pass any laws it wants to pass offensive enough to step on the toes of a fellow "conservative."

    Then there's TylerTechsas.. Maybe those two neo-cons are brothers?

    The worst part of this is that Mildawg is actually someone CONNECTED to the government. It's quite a shame.

    I think it's because this thread is so lame and petty most of us tuned out a long time ago!!!

  14. #164
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    ^The thread IS lame.
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  15. #165
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    Re: McCain’s Extra-Territorial Birth Raises Questions About Ability to Become Preside

    Quote Originally Posted by randerizer View Post
    Frankly, I'm surprised more of the Republicans aren't taking on Mildawg over this. My guess is that most on this board don't find Mildawg's interpretation that the Constitution gave Congress a blank check to pass any laws it wants to pass offensive enough to step on the toes of a fellow "conservative."

    Then there's TylerTechsas.. Maybe those two neo-cons are brothers?

    The worst part of this is that Mildawg is actually someone CONNECTED to the government. It's quite a shame.

    I lied in the other thread. It's not the end quite yet.


    Find one post in which I said that Congress was given a blank check to make whatever laws it wanted. Of course, you can't because I never wrote that. The only things I have been stating over and over is that Congress passed this law in 1942; you cannot be punished for not putting your hand over your heart; Obama was an idiot for not observing the courtesy at a campaign event.

    Find any posts in which my argument is different.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT MY INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS A FACT THAT THE CONGRESS PASSED THIS LAW IN 1942 AND IT IS FOUND UNDER TITLE 36 OF THE U.S. CODE. ALL YOUR, DB2'S, AGJR'S, AND GUISS' PISSING AND MOANING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT FACT. YOU ARE TRYING TO CONJURE UP A NEW ARGUMENT OUT OF THIN AIR THAT DIVERTS ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE ORIGINAL ARGUMENT, WHICH IS THAT OBAMA WAS WRONG. WHETHER YOU THINK CONGRESS HAD/HAS THE RIGHT TO PASS THE LAW DOES NOT MATTER. THEY DID AND IT EXISTS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GET YOUR LAW DEGREE AND TAKE IT BEFORE A FEDERAL COURT WHERE SOMEONE WILL CARE ABOUT YOUR ARGUMENT OF CONSTITUTIONALITY.

    I am correct in this argument. You attempted to start a new argument that you could win regarding constitutionality and states rights', but I am not arguing those points. Frankly, I don't see the relevance to the whole issue. I suspect you really don't, either.

    Now I'm finished.

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