interesting article on budke

[Mean Gene]

Dawg - Well, we agree on most of what U said. However, having known Kim & Randy while we were @ Tech in the late 70's/early 80's, I'm somewhat taken back by your statement that Kim "lacks character". Care to elaborate?
I also hold myself to higher standards than I hold others because I can't control what THEY do but am fully responsible for my own actions. That's why, as I stated in another post about CL stepping down on his own accord for the better of the program, I personally stepped away from a higher paying position within my company because I knew that I couldn't handle the demands. I'm too old to have an ego & get into a "measuring contest" with others like DR & KM did. I totally agree that our best chance of having the WBB circle unbroken was to transfer power from LB to KM but it's too late for that.
NOW begs the question - where do we go from here? CL certainly isn't gonna volunteer to step aside & DD seems to care less about restoring the signature ( well, it once was ) program of Tech. Guess we'll see what next year brings with all of CL's "great recruits" & whomever he gets to become A/C's.

[dawg80]

The only point about the character issue is KM placed her own ego or selfish desires ahead of the program. That is not conjecture, it is fact, given that she did indeed leave Tech when she didn't get the exact contract terms she wanted. That was my only point on the character issue.

"Do your duty in all things. You can not do more. You should never wish to do less."
---- Robert E. Lee

[Mean Gene]

Fair enough. But can we not also apply the same logic to DR??

MG

[fanfromafar]

The only point about the character issue is KM placed her own ego or selfish desires ahead of the program. That is not conjecture, it is fact, given that she did indeed leave Tech when she didn't get the exact contract terms she wanted. That was my only point on the character issue.

"Do your duty in all things. You can not do more. You should never wish to do less."
---- Robert E. Lee

IMO that's a ridiculous statement. She made a business decision. It doesn't speak of her character in a negative way for her to CHOOSE what was better for HER and HER FAMILY.

Tech screwed up. It's simple. It's true. It's inexcusable.

[dawg80]

IMO that's a ridiculous statement. She made a business decision. It doesn't speak of her character in a negative way for her to CHOOSE what was better for HER and HER FAMILY.

Tech screwed up. It's simple. It's true. It's inexcusable.

Yes it does. A business decision vs. a character issue? Hmmmm... think about that one in the context of lots of other things.

You know....Ken Lay made a "business decision" and chose to screw thousands of people because that was better for HIM and HIS FAMILY.

BTW, would KM have been hurting living on that kind of salary in Ruston?

Did DR screw up? I don't know. Does anyone think that KM, having been given the 5-yr deal, would not have been back whining at the trough for a raise? For other perks? I think, given the obvious character flaw, that it's a real possibility that NOTHING would have satisfied her for long.

[TechDawgMc]

Watched a bit of Okie St being blown out today. Maybe making the Sweet 16 and then being uncompetitive is what Budke is basically capable of. Guess that doesn't look that bad now.

I was disappointed he didn't do something about Riley. I saw the hit she made on White. Complete bush-league play. I'd heard she was a thug, but that was ridiculous. No way she should have finished that game.

[LT]

KB throws another game so he can interview for a better job.

[fanfromafar]

Budke took a team from nowhere to somewhere. Period.

As far as being "blown out" today, seems just several weeks ago we were "blown out" by a much bigger margin on our home court. Comparisons do no good right now. We lose in every comparison.

The only place Budke doesn't have great respect is from some at Louisiana Tech. Since this is a Tech board, I guess that is all that matters, though. :icon_wink:

[cranberry]

Watched a bit of Okie St being blown out today. Maybe making the Sweet 16 and then being uncompetitive is what Budke is basically capable of. Guess that doesn't look that bad now.

I was disappointed he didn't do something about Riley. I saw the hit she made on White. Complete bush-league play. I'd heard she was a thug, but that was ridiculous. No way she should have finished that game.

Missed the game due to working--can you give details about Riley's "hit" ??? thanks

[TechDawgMc]

Missed the game due to working--can you give details about Riley's "hit" ??? thanks

She threw a punch at Erica White. (I heard she did it twice, but only saw one) Somehow the refs missed it. ESPN has made a pretty big deal about it. If you watch any of their coverage, you'll probably see it.

I was impressed with Chancellor. He pulled White off the court, settled her down and apparently convinced her the best revenge was winning. Nice job of diffusing the situation.

[TechDawgMc]

Budke took a team from nowhere to somewhere. Period.

As far as being "blown out" today, seems just several weeks ago we were "blown out" by a much bigger margin on our home court. Comparisons do no good right now. We lose in every comparison.. :icon_wink:

Hence the phrase "guess that doesn't look bad now" Really don't understand why you are so anxious to kiss his backside. I don't think even Champ is suggesting we're better off now.

[Mean Gene]

Hence the phrase "guess that doesn't look bad now" Really don't understand why you are so anxious to kiss his backside. I don't think even Champ is suggesting we're better off now.

NO ONE ( including ME!! ) is kissing KB's butt!! What we're asking everyone to re-examine is the claims that KB couldn't coach & left the Techster program in the shape it's in ( HARDLY!! ). Clearly the man's success @ Trinity Valley coupled w/the turnaround he's orchestrated @ OSU shows he CAN indeed coach. He even kept US in the tourney & won the WAC twice ( something CL can't manage to do ).
No, not even Champ ( the always optimist ) thinks we're better now than we were w/KB. Champ thinks ( & I feel like I can speak for him since he & I argue all the time!! ) that what CL is doing is building for the long haul whereas KB used JUCO's too much as a stop-gap measure. Guess we'll see.

As for what happened yesterday, I was @ the 'Dome for both games yesterday & didn't see what Riley did ( I was seated at the other end of the court ) until they played it back over the overhead screens. She CLEARLY took TWO cheap shots @ White & Chancellor did the smart thing by taking EW out before she could retaliate ( now THAT'S coaching!! Wish WE had one of those!! ). They should have thrown Riley out but the refs didn't see it either.
BTW - for those of ya'll who think Okie State got "blown out". I recall a certain team from Ruston who got hammered by this same LSU team IN Ruston by 31 points!!

[fanfromafar]

Hence the phrase "guess that doesn't look bad now" Really don't understand why you are so anxious to kiss his backside. I don't think even Champ is suggesting we're better off now.

No kissing here. And I wouldn't even bring it up if Budke weren't still being blamed (not by Champ) by some for THIS season's dismal showing.

I was responding due to the posts about OSU being "blown out" and how embarrassing it is (to me at least) for some to keep bashing Budke and his great success and track record while seemingly giving a pass to the current coach.

The faults of this and last season are solely laid at the feet of Long. If anyone wanted to continue the argument that it really has to do with Budke leaving the cupboard bare, and there being so much youth and inexperience, that argument was trashed as the entire support team for Long has now dismantled. Sure, he fired Brooke's husband, but does anyone truly believe that Joni would have left if this program was headed upward? Isnell comes in for ONE season then bails as well? People can spin it all they want (Joni was leaving anyway, Rick wanted to coach) but these decisions are linked to the failures of Long. Not Budke.

[TechDawgMc]

Perhaps the difference here is that you guys are comparing Budke to Long and I'm comparing him to Barmore. I don't care that he's better than Long. Sonja Hogg might be better than Long. Doesn't impress me at all.

The fact is that the Techsters declined significantly under Budke's leadership. He started with five future WNBA picks on his team. He finished with one (and she was a senior). He moved us from a power to a team barely capable of making the Sweet 16 (which is really just barely above mediocre in women's basketball). Has Long continued the slide? Sure. And he gets the blame for that. He was clearly a poor hire and shouldn't have survived this year (probably wouldn't have it if weren't for the money). That doesn't really raise Budke up much in my book. Clearly he can coach on the floor, but he doesn't get the kind of players that compete for titles.

Maybe no one could at Tech once Barmore retired. That's a possibility. We'll never know now though--unless someone proves it can be done -- against the odds of the clear collapse of the program.

[Mean Gene]

Perhaps the difference here is that you guys are comparing Budke to Long and I'm comparing him to Barmore. I don't care that he's better than Long. Sonja Hogg might be better than Long. Doesn't impress me at all.

The fact is that the Techsters declined significantly under Budke's leadership. He started with five future WNBA picks on his team. He finished with one (and she was a senior). He moved us from a power to a team barely capable of making the Sweet 16 (which is really just barely above mediocre in women's basketball). Has Long continued the slide? Sure. And he gets the blame for that. He was clearly a poor hire and shouldn't have survived this year (probably wouldn't have it if weren't for the money). That doesn't really raise Budke up much in my book. Clearly he can coach on the floor, but he doesn't get the kind of players that compete for titles.

Maybe no one could at Tech once Barmore retired. That's a possibility. We'll never know now though--unless someone proves it can be done -- against the odds of the clear collapse of the program.

Well, I don't know of many programs where following a legend ( which LB certain is! ) didn't see the decline of the program. How many national titles has UCLA won since Wooden retired? For that matter, how about North Carolina since Dean Smith stepped away? Yes, UCLA has one ( or 2 ) since JW but not nearly with the same frequency as before. It's not just BB - check out 'Bama in FB since the Bear stepped down.
Recruiting ( or a lack of ) is one area that I agree that KB was sub-par in ( although he DID get Riley to OSU & away from the likes of LSU, UConn & Tenn. ). However, his use of JUCO's made up for that, IMHO. Yes, here we go again w/the anti-JUCO sentiment but if U KEEP using a FEW of them then your program shouldn't decline.
U speak as though the Techster's fall from the elite of WBB started w/KB & that's simply NOT true! In Leon's final 5 years as HC we went out earlier each year ( except for 00-01 ) = 97-98 - Nat'l Championship game; 98-99 Final 4; 99-00 Sweet 16; 00-01 Elite 8; & 01-02 Sweet 16 ). That's not because of coaching, IMO, but rather the fact that other big-name schools w/larger budgets began taking WBB more seriously. For that matter, KB got us to the Sweet 16 his first 2 years at the helm so there's not a decline there. Can he get the "players who came compete for titles" as U say? Well, the Sweet 16 in his third year @ OSU certainly bodes well for that. Besides, U don't have to have a team of Parade All Americans to win. In fact, KM ( who's that?? :icon_wink: ) managed to do quite well @ Baylor when she won her Nat'l Championship w/a group of ladies who didn't have a superstar but managed to play as a TEAM!! That's something a real HC can do ( unlike what we currently are stuck with! ).
BTW - for those of ya'll who keep defending poor CL having been struck by the injury bug, KB didn't do too badly back in 04-05 when he was forced to do w/o pre-season WAC POY Erica Taylor ( who was pregnant ) until mid January.