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Thread: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

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    Thumbs Up HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    HB199 which would authorize the carrying of concealed handguns by non-law enforcement individuals on campus was pulled from consideration by it's author. The bill faced overwhelming opposition by University Chiefs of Police, University Police Officers, University Administrators, Students and Parents.
    Last edited by Dawgfan71227; 06-22-2008 at 08:26 PM.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Wow, I can't believe such a bill even got that far. Do crack dealers now have lobbyists or something?
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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Ever busted anyone for accidentally leaving their shotgun in their on-campus parked truck during duck season, DF? What's the punishment for that?

    Curious because I pass by a ton of trucks in the gravel lots with gun cases in the back seat in the Fall. Is this one of those things that's just kind of swept under the rug?

    Not that I mind. Crazy-ass gun-toting good ol' boys make me feel safer. I'm glad I'm on THEIR side.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan71227 View Post
    HB199 which would authorize the carrying of concealed handguns by non-law enforcement individuals was pulled from consideration by it's author. The bill faced overwhelming opposition by University Chiefs of Police, University Police Officers, University Administrators, Students and Parents.
    I'm confused. Currently, a person can get a permit to carry a concealed handgun even if they are non-law enforcement individuals isn't that correct? Would this bill have done away with the provision of having to get a permit? If so, it's a good thing, I think, that it was pulled.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminaire View Post
    Ever busted anyone for accidentally leaving their shotgun in their on-campus parked truck during duck season, DF? What's the punishment for that?

    Curious because I pass by a ton of trucks in the gravel lots with gun cases in the back seat in the Fall. Is this one of those things that's just kind of swept under the rug?

    Not that I mind. Crazy-ass gun-toting good ol' boys make me feel safer. I'm glad I'm on THEIR side.

    Shotguns and Hunting rifles in pick-up trucks are not a problem as long as they remain in the vehicle. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. If you pull that shotgun out on a parking lot and wave it around, that would be a problem. There is nothing to sweep under the rug in this instance

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan71227 View Post
    Shotguns and Hunting rifles in pick-up trucks are not a problem as long as they remain in the vehicle. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. If you pull that shotgun out on a parking lot and wave it around, that would be a problem. There is nothing to sweep under the rug in this instance
    Cool. Figured that but wasn't sure if the 'extension of your home' deal worked on a university campus or not.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtydawg View Post
    I'm confused. Currently, a person can get a permit to carry a concealed handgun even if they are non-law enforcement individuals isn't that correct? Would this bill have done away with the provision of having to get a permit? If so, it's a good thing, I think, that it was pulled.
    HB199 would have allowed people with concealed handgun permits to carry their guns concealed on their person anywhere on a campus. This would have included classrooms. Currently, handguns are not allowed anywhere on campus, concealed or not even if you have a concealed carry permit. Law Enforcement is obviously excluded. It would have created an extremely complicated scenario for officers responding to a report of a shooter. How would you determine who was the bad guy and who was a good guy with a gun? Innocent people could accidentally be mistaken for bad guys.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan71227 View Post
    HB199 would have allowed people with concealed handgun permits to carry their guns concealed on their person anywhere on a campus. This would have included classrooms. Currently, handguns are not allowed anywhere on campus, concealed or not even if you have a concealed carry permit. Law Enforcement is obviously excluded. It would have created an extremely complicated scenario for officers responding to a report of a shooter. How would you determine who was the bad guy and who was a good guy with a gun? Innocent people could accidentally be mistaken for bad guys.
    You're right. Don't need to make things anymore complicated than they already are. Even though you guys piss me off sometimes (needless arrogant attitudes by some), I respect the jobs you do and anything that can make it more safe for you guys consider my support. You can add firefighters and EMS in as well.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan71227 View Post
    HB199 would have allowed people with concealed handgun permits to carry their guns concealed on their person anywhere on a campus. This would have included classrooms. Currently, handguns are not allowed anywhere on campus, concealed or not even if you have a concealed carry permit. Law Enforcement is obviously excluded. It would have created an extremely complicated scenario for officers responding to a report of a shooter. How would you determine who was the bad guy and who was a good guy with a gun? Innocent people could accidentally be mistaken for bad guys.
    Obviously, there is another side to that logic. Since it's known that concealed carry is illegal on the college scene, that makes it a prime target to go postal like Virginia Tech. While I understand it could create an extremely complicated scenario for officers, it might potentially also save lives. Leaving the responsibility of personal protection to someone else, no matter how well trained they are, seems like a bad idea.

    I guess the best comparison would be to compare the success of suicidal mass murders in locations where CC is illegal to those where CC is legal. That's especially difficult since schools have other advantages for suicidal mass murderings.
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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Abominable Gorilla View Post
    Obviously, there is another side to that logic. Since it's known that concealed carry is illegal on the college scene, that makes it a prime target to go postal like Virginia Tech. While I understand it could create an extremely complicated scenario for officers, it might potentially also save lives. Leaving the responsibility of personal protection to someone else, no matter how well trained they are, seems like a bad idea.

    I guess the best comparison would be to compare the success of suicidal mass murders in locations where CC is illegal to those where CC is legal. That's especially difficult since schools have other advantages for suicidal mass murderings.
    Im not going to discuss tactics, but please allow me to say this. When the Police arrive on scene, there is going to be a dynamic response. During that dynamic response, the Police have one Primary goal. Stop the shooter. We are bringing weapons and training that a CC permitted person simply does not possess. If a CC permitted student is shooting, he/she is going to be engaged by police. We don't want that to happen. It would be far too easy for someone to accidentally be shot by mistake.

    There is absolutely no guarantee that a CC Permitted student is capable of stopping a person intent on mass murder. Statistics prove these individuals are well armed and motivated to kill as many people as possible. No class for CC carry even breeches how to confront a motivated shooter. CC permitted students would only add to the confusion and chaos of an active shooter situation. It simply isn't worth the risk. Police spend hours upon hours training. I have been to two active shooter schools and numerous active shooter training sessions where we actually engage an active shooter. In every scenario, the active shooter is taken out, and officers are wounded. Instructors determine if a wound is fatal. Officers "Die" even with the advanced training and tactics. A CC permitted student would not stand a chance.
    '

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Yawn
    I'm an asshole! What's your excuse?

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by CARTEK View Post
    Yawn
    If you think VA Tech can't happen at LA Tech... Yawn all you like.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Lets say it does happen, how long will it take for the police to get there? Do they still surround and contain the situation before moving in? That could take precious minutes.

    Im asking because I do not know.

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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan71227 View Post
    Im not going to discuss tactics, but please allow me to say this. When the Police arrive on scene, there is going to be a dynamic response. During that dynamic response, the Police have one Primary goal. Stop the shooter. We are bringing weapons and training that a CC permitted person simply does not possess. If a CC permitted student is shooting, he/she is going to be engaged by police. We don't want that to happen. It would be far too easy for someone to accidentally be shot by mistake.

    There is absolutely no guarantee that a CC Permitted student is capable of stopping a person intent on mass murder. Statistics prove these individuals are well armed and motivated to kill as many people as possible. No class for CC carry even breeches how to confront a motivated shooter. CC permitted students would only add to the confusion and chaos of an active shooter situation. It simply isn't worth the risk. Police spend hours upon hours training. I have been to two active shooter schools and numerous active shooter training sessions where we actually engage an active shooter. In every scenario, the active shooter is taken out, and officers are wounded. Instructors determine if a wound is fatal. Officers "Die" even with the advanced training and tactics. A CC permitted student would not stand a chance.
    '
    I totally, totally agree with your logic without agreeing with your conclusion. I think where we might disagree is what the above means. In a situation where a mass shooting occurs, I'd rather have the chance to defend myself than only the ability to rely on the police even at the risk of the police engaging me.

    JMHO, but the point of CC is NOT to stop or confront a person intent on mass murder. The point is to be able to defend yourself and retreat from the situation (which is different than the situation you are mentioning above).
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    Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan71227 View Post
    If you think VA Tech can't happen at LA Tech... Yawn all you like.
    It won't happen in Dr. Blackstock's class because he locks the door.

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