What We've Sacrificed in the Name of Security

[Guisslapp]

And, for those of you who love to spout off without actually researching the Patriot Act, there are still warrants needed to conduct the searches and "wiretaps." The only difference under the Patriot Act from previous FISA laws is that under the Patriot Act, the Attorney General can authorize a "blanket warrant;" i.e. those conducting the investigations or intelligence collection operations do not need to keep going back to the AG for each instance. Convenient that you omit that little piece out of your argument.

But again, I ask: what in the hell do you care if Islam Tom, a known al-Qa'ida operative, is here in the US and is being targeted by our government? Only a raging liberal would care, which would explain your interest in this issue. Thank God for people who actually care about safeguarding our nation who put the safety of my wife and kids before your delicate sensibilities.

BTW, if it were not for liberals you would give away all of your rights before you realized it. There is always going to be some benevolent purpose behind the offending law.

[Guisslapp]

"The Fourth Amendment was designed not merely to protect against official intrusions whose social utility was less as measured by some `balancing test' than its intrusion on individual privacy; it was designed in addition to grant the individual a zone of privacy whose protections could be breached only where the `reasonable' requirements of the probable-cause standard were met. Moved by whatever momentary evil has aroused their fears, officials - perhaps even supported by a majority of citizens - may be tempted to conduct searches that sacrifice the liberty of each citizen to assuage the perceived evil. But the Fourth Amendment rests on the principle that a true balance between the individual and society depends on the recognition of `the right to be let alone - the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.'
-Justice Brandeis

[DAWG DUDE]

Edit9/11 - 2974
Iraq - 3376
Pearl Harbor - 2403
WW2 - 405,399

ABORTION - 3780

Interesting math. But don't put down your pencils!! That is the DAILY average IN THE U.S.
May not be posted in the correct thread. I guess it should be titled, "What we've sacrificed."

Anyway, carry on with your topic. Thanks.

[JuBru]

Edit9/11 - 2974
Iraq - 3376
Pearl Harbor - 2403
WW2 - 405,399

ABORTION - 3780

Interesting math. But don't put down your pencils!! That is the DAILY average IN THE U.S.
May not be posted in the correct thread. I guess it should be titled, "What we've sacrificed."

Anyway, carry on with your topic. Thanks.

Sad I know.

[Good Doggy]

If I do that ONE MORE TIME, my son is going to run away from home!!! The above post is mine, so if you want to red dot it, do it here!! Thanks!!

[JuBru]

If I do that ONE MORE TIME, my son is going to run away from home!!! The above post is mine, so if you want to red dot it, do it here!! Thanks!!

Sometimes, I think you do that on purpose :icon_wink:

[Dawgmatic]

Again, I'll repeat my first post. I work for the government as a counterterrorism specialist and can verify that the Patriot Act and our collection efforts against domestic targets in no way infringes upon your civil rights. Your phone calls nor the phone calls of anyone related to you have ever been intercepted, unless they were found in the pocket litter or phone/computer files of terrorists captured/killed overseas. That's what the whole wiretapping thing was about -- targeting US-based phones/emails that were known contacts of terrorists overseas. Period. Besides, do the math on what it would take for NSA to collect every phone call or email emanating from the US. How many phones/email accounts do you have? How many are there in the US? How many people working 24 hours a day would it take to tap into all those phones/computers? Hello? Use some common sense.

Mildawg, thank you. I have never - not one time been concerned that the Patriot Act will infringe on my Civil Rights. If you don't have anything to hide, you won't have anything to be concerned about. I am GLAD that we have the Patriot Act. It helps keep us safe and I am ALL for it. Listen in on the damn terrorists and other criminals. Please. Listen to me. I don't care. I got nothing to hide.

[Guisslapp]

Mildawg, thank you. I have never - not one time been concerned that the Patriot Act will infringe on my Civil Rights. If you don't have anything to hide, you won't have anything to be concerned about. I am GLAD that we have the Patriot Act. It helps keep us safe and I am ALL for it. Listen in on the damn terrorists and other criminals. Please. Listen to me. I don't care. I got nothing to hide.

Until you jokingly make a comment about wanting to kill Obama and then federal agents descend upon your house and detain you for 6 months in Guantanimo without due process over a misunderstanding.

[Dawgmatic]

Until you jokingly make a comment about wanting to kill Obama and then federal agents descend upon your house and detain you for 6 months in Guantanimo without due process over a misunderstanding.

I don't joke about things like that. That's not a joke.

[DogtorEvil]

Until you jokingly make a comment about wanting to kill Obama and then federal agents descend upon your house and detain you for 6 months in Guantanimo without due process over a misunderstanding.

a tad bit melodramatic aren't we? examples?

[Guisslapp]

I don't joke about things like that. That's not a joke.

Well, perhaps someone dear to you makes this comment innocently while venting in frustration to their spouse/significant other on the phone over something stupid Obama did (even taken way out of context) and they are detained.

[Guisslapp]

a tad bit melodramatic aren't we? examples?

Surely you can think of some idiomatic expressions that one could innocently make that could be misinterpreted. This happens to people - even a doc in Ruston who made a comment in jest about Clinton - but usually people are more careful about things they say in public than on the phone to someone they are close to.

But to me, all that is immaterial. Rights are rights, and this whole thing has been and continues to be a slippery slope.

[Dawgmatic]

Well, perhaps someone dear to you makes this comment innocently while venting in frustration to their spouse/significant other on the phone over something stupid Obama did (even taken way out of context) and they are detained.

And perhaps Pigs will wear lipstick.

[DogtorEvil]

And perhaps Pigs will wear lipstick.

so what do you suggest is a better alternative?

[Guisslapp]

And perhaps Pigs will wear lipstick.

Or the likelihood of dying in a terrorist attack??