Question concerning Obama tax plan...

[NathanDarby]

I would love to have the money my boss spends on tax attorneys in attempts to find ways around taxes. Very little of his money goes to him personally.

I am pretty sure your boss saves more by paying those attorneys than he would not having them and paying the full rate. Otherwise he wouldn't hire them. It also irritates me when people say things like the rich "exploit loopholes" or "take advantage of tax breaks", like they are doing something quasi-illegal or morally wrong. It is not like there is some secret, hidden way out of taxes that only the rich are told about. Every "loophole" is just a law written into our tax code for a reason, and "exploiting" that loophole is 100 perfectly legal and is, infact, just following the letter of the law. How many people bitching about this "exploit the loophole" for your home mortgage interest deduction every year? It is the same thing for a big busines, just a lot more categories of things that you can get deductions from. And it is ridicusouly complicated, hence the need for tax attorneys. The problem is when these crusader politicians go on rants to the uneducated masses talking about "shutting down loopholes" for big business it makes them think these businesses are doing something wrong or illegal. "Shutting down loopholes" is just politician-speak for "raising taxes". I would be all for a simple flat tax if it were a sensible rate, and I bet a lot of other people would too. In the meantime we have to put up with loopholes and lawyers.

[Brian96]

I am pretty sure your boss saves more by paying those attorneys than he would not having them and paying the full rate. Otherwise he wouldn't hire them. It also irritates me when people say things like the rich "exploit loopholes" or "take advantage of tax breaks", like they are doing something quasi-illegal or morally wrong. It is not like there is some secret, hidden way out of taxes that only the rich are told about. Every "loophole" is just a law written into our tax code for a reason, and "exploiting" that loophole is 100 perfectly legal and is, infact, just following the letter of the law. How many people bitching about this "exploit the loophole" for your home mortgage interest deduction every year? It is the same thing for a big busines, just a lot more categories of things that you can get deductions from. And it is ridicusouly complicated, hence the need for tax attorneys. The problem is when these crusader politicians go on rants to the uneducated masses talking about "shutting down loopholes" for big business it makes them think these businesses are doing something wrong or illegal. "Shutting down loopholes" is just politician-speak for "raising taxes". I would be all for a simple flat tax if it were a sensible rate, and I bet a lot of other people would too. In the meantime we have to put up with loopholes and lawyers.

Just to play devil's advocate, it is not just squeezing out every possible deduction, it is also making business decisions to avoid paying taxes (like setting up "tax shelters" overseas). There are ways out of paying tax on your true income that are only available to the "rich" and the very poor. There are also "working class" people who avoid taxes by working for cash that they don't report as income.

With all the complaints about how much higher a percentage of income the rich pay, I'd love to see numbers on how much of their "real" income they pay compared to the percentage of their "reported" income. I wonder if it sort of evens things out a little bit.

[Guisslapp]

Just to play devil's advocate, it is not just squeezing out every possible deduction, it is also making business decisions to avoid paying taxes (like setting up "tax shelters" overseas). There are ways out of paying tax on your true income that are only available to the "rich" and the very poor. There are also "working class" people who avoid taxes by working for cash that they don't report as income.

With all the complaints about how much higher a percentage of income the rich pay, I'd love to see numbers on how much of their "real" income they pay compared to the percentage of their "reported" income. I wonder if it sort of evens things out a little bit.

I am not rich although Obama says I am. I pay ~ 22.5% of my income in federal tax and an additional ~ 6% for state tax under the current tax code. I get to keep ~ 71% of what I earn now.

It would go to ~ 27% federal and ~ 6% state tax if Obama's tax plan passes. I would get to keep ~ 67% what I earn.

Those numbers are percentages of REAL income and those are the taxes I REALLY pay.

[saltydawg]

I am not rich although Obama says I am. I pay ~ 22.5% of my income in federal tax and an additional ~ 6% for state tax under the current tax code. I get to keep ~ 71% of what I earn now.

It would go to ~ 27% federal and ~ 6% state tax if Obama's tax plan passes. I would get to keep ~ 67% what I earn.

Those numbers are percentages of REAL income and those are the taxes I REALLY pay.

Guiss, Obama doesn't think you are rich if your federal tax rate is 22.5%. You got to be in the 33% tax rate (like me) to be so honored.

Your taxes will probably remain the same while mine go up. It's time to start thinking about tax shelters again.

[Guisslapp]

Guiss, Obama doesn't think you are rich if your federal tax rate is 22.5%. You got to be in the 33% tax rate (like me) to be so honored.

Your taxes will probably remain the same while mine go up. It's time to start thinking about tax shelters again.

My tax rate for my whole income averages to 22.5%. A portion of it is taxed at the higher 33% bracket. I have run the numbers with and without the GWB tax cuts. That is where I get my numbers.

[Guisslapp]

You do understand how the tax brackets work, right?

[saltydawg]

You do understand how the tax brackets work, right?

Of course,,,,,, thought you were referring to the highest bracket paid. Guess you are rich after all, Comrade Worker.

I just got done driving 1200 miles so I'm still a little dopey.

[CARTEK]

Driving had nothing to do with it!

[saltydawg]

Driving had nothing to do with it!

I knew you were going to say that. Have to toss you a bone once in awhile.

[dawgtired]

It's time to start thinking about tax shelters again.

Doesn't that make you un-patriotic?:icon_wink:

[saltydawg]

Doesn't that make you un-patriotic?:icon_wink:

Nope. Tax shelters are as American as apple pie. I'll go out on a limb here and predict that the tax shelter industry will experience a boom under President Obama.