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Thread: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

  1. #16
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    The democrats would be STUPID to act in a pro-abortion manner. That drums up evangelical conservative votes. If they do nothing they won't piss off the church crowd.

    In fact the smartest thing the dems could do is let go of the abortion issue altogether! Many republican votes would evaporate.

  2. #17
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    We are a republic.

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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS View Post
    We are a republic.
    I know, but people talk about "democracy" all the time like it is such a great thing. And really the difference between direct democracy and representational democracy ("republic") only affects precisely WHO gets to make the decision, and doesn't prevent tyranny in any way.
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  4. #19
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by buck_dawg_gold View Post
    My problem with churches getting involved with govt has to do with the seperation between church and state. If churches get involved now....then where does it stop? The religous group with the largest following will make all the laws. It goes further then the issue of abortion. Will it now be illegal to have sex with a condom next?
    Quote Originally Posted by GonzoDawg View Post
    You are absolutely right 80. Our Priest never mentioned a candidate or a party but made it abundantly clear that voting for pro abortion candidates was not acceptable.
    You don't want churches to address specific societal issues? Is it ok with you that churches spoke out on abolition? How about civil rights? Helping the poor? Loving your country? The importance of voting? Anything?

    What these guys are saying is that the Catholic church has a clear stand on an issue and they encourage their followers to vote together on that issue. As GL pointed out, this isn't much different than any other group encouraging their membership to vote on an important issue.

    I think there are places that a pro-life Democrat could easily get elected - but he'd have to do it on his own. He'd get no support from the DNC.

  5. #20
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    I seem to remember lots of black churches shown on TV partying on election night with bigscreens setup as their candidate got elected.

  6. #21
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    I read thru the comments on this thread. Let me say this, I am only advocating that if someone, anyone, wishes to be a part of the Catholic Church, that they should follow its teachings, especially on an issue like abortion. It is so basic, so fundamental in the Church that I would think that a pro-abortionist would seek to leave the Church of their own accord.

    On the comments of separation of church and state, again, I was careful to emphasize that as an American you can vote whichever way you see fit. Voting for your choice of candidate is American. Supporting abortion, and those that advocate abortion, is most definitely NOT Roman Catholic.

    You see? I do clearly separate the two. You can be a voting American all you want. But, it is hypocritical, at the very least, to support, even passively, abortion and claim to be a Roman Catholic.

    Don't stop being an American. Stop being Roman Catholic, if you support abortion.

  7. #22
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    I read thru the comments on this thread. Let me say this, I am only advocating that if someone, anyone, wishes to be a part of the Catholic Church, that they should follow its teachings, especially on an issue like abortion. It is so basic, so fundamental in the Church that I would think that a pro-abortionist would seek to leave the Church of their own accord.

    On the comments of separation of church and state, again, I was careful to emphasize that as an American you can vote whichever way you see fit. Voting for your choice of candidate is American. Supporting abortion, and those that advocate abortion, is most definitely NOT Roman Catholic.

    You see? I do clearly separate the two. You can be a voting American all you want. But, it is hypocritical, at the very least, to support, even passively, abortion and claim to be a Roman Catholic.

    Don't stop being an American. Stop being Roman Catholic, if you support abortion.
    I understand your point, I just think that a very large percentage of society prefers not to view the world in black and white. Those are the people you are dealing with.
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  8. #23
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I suspect that some of the members of your church do not fervently ascribe to Catholicism but participate in the church for other reasons - family tradition, structure, relationship/social reasons, guilt, etc.

    There is no question that is the case. However, for some of us that is the issue. None of us are claiming perfection yet we take exception with our brothers and sisters( I know that sounds corny) that do not adhere to one of the most core principles of the Catholic faith and that is the right to life. I do not expect those without faith to understand.

  9. #24
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Let me add that everyone is entitled to their opinions but the Catholic Church is firm in it's defense of life. It does not waver to meet the changing zeitgeist of the body of the church or segments thereof. It is up to each person to choose weather they believe in these principles, however the Church stands firm. If I did not defend the right to life according to my belief I would be failing in my faith. I do not judge others for their decision but I do admonish them, everything else is between them and God.

  10. #25
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by GonzoDawg View Post
    There is no question that is the case. However, for some of us that is the issue. None of us are claiming perfection yet we take exception with our brothers and sisters( I know that sounds corny) that do not adhere to one of the most core principles of the Catholic faith and that is the right to life. I do not expect those without faith to understand.
    I get it - and the Catholic church is not the only church where it is this way. However, I think if you focus on the abortion issue with these people you are not really confronting the underlying issue - just a symptom. These people are not as committed to the Church or its principles as you. Now, are you okay with the fact that they still want to "participate" in Catholicism, albeit to a very minor level (e.g., when it is convenient to them)?
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  11. #26
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I get it - and the Catholic church is not the only church where it is this way. However, I think if you focus on the abortion issue with these people you are not really confronting the underlying issue - just a symptom. These people are not as committed to the Church or its principles as you. Now, are you okay with the fact that they still want to "participate" in Catholicism, albeit to a very minor level (e.g., when it is convenient to them)?

    Guiss, it's not up to me to decide if they can participate. As I said how they behave is between them and God. I will encourage them to follow their faith more closely just as I would expect one of them to do the same for me (happens all the time). There are a lot of things Catholics disagree about, there are lots of disagreements within the church. There a lot of pro capital punishment Catholics and I disagree with their position as well. I'm know there are things in my life that are not fully in accord with my faith. It is to be human. I do not know if the church considers voting for a pro abortion candidate a mortal sin, however it is definitely no something I can do with a clear conscience.

    By the way, I would like to say to all the people that think that they get ragged on just because they disagree with one of our positions "check this out'. Here are a atheist and a pro life Catholic having a good discussion. The reason, Guiss and I fundamentally disagree but I respect his intellect. He makes me think. Try doing that and you might not get called to the mat so often.

  12. #27
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    I was very disappointed, well, I am very disappointed by about 50% of Catholics that voted for Obama and continue to support other democrats. I even got into an argument with an acquaintance that attends the same church I do. I said to her, if you want to support the demos, and their platform that includes abortion, that is your choice as an American, but you should seek another church, one that advocates murder. She didn't like that. And stammered around with a reply like, well, I can vote for whomever I want to....I agreed, and said, I already acknowledged that, but it is inherently inconsistent to be a Roman Catholic and to also vote for the party of death.

    The Church simply reiterated its position on the issue and our priest said, prior to the election, to follow your heart and vote.

    Well, I maintain, you can NOT be Catholic and also support the demos. It is not enough to say, as this woman said, you do not like abortion, would never have an abortion yourself, but support the right of others to. Babies are defenseless. You can not support ANY position by simply saying, "I would never do it, but..." By voting for Obama and other demos, assured that the murder of babies would continue.

    So, choose, be a demo or be Catholic. You can not be both.
    I agree with you. Of course I take it further - you can't be a Christian and vote for him either. There is no way you can believe in the Bible and think that his stance is acceptable. Of course there are a lot of people sitting in churches that don't open the Bible up and are deceived- and I hope they wake up one day.

  13. #28
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal&Ken View Post
    I agree with you. Of course I take it further - you can't be a Christian and vote for him either.
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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion


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    Re: • Catholic Bishops Vow to Fight Obama on Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS View Post
    Good news.
    Jordan Mills on choosing Tech:
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