'Constitutional crisis' looms over Obama's birth location

[JuBru]

JuBru, of course you realize that Hawaiian State law prohibits any State official or employee from presenting any documentation regarding Obama's birth certificate, long or short form.

I know the state and federal laws about it. I'm not asking for the birth certificate. That is something Obama, and every other candidate should provide with obvious redactions.

Really?

As I said when it passes from a discussion of fact to a matter of faith, there's no point discussing.

So, you are saying that the document posted on the Internet, and examined by the mentioned organizations was not issued by the State of Hawaii?

From the link:

"Some background: On June 13, 2008, after months of hounding by the media and wild Internet speculation that Obama was actually born in either Indonesia or Kenya, the Obama campaign finally released a copy of Obama's "Certification of Birth" from Hawaii and posted it on the Internet. The document states that Barack Hussein Obama II was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at 7:24 p.m. in Honolulu, Hawaii, to parents Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Hussein Obama.

"End of story? Hardly. If anything, it merely intensified the debate. Numerous critics arose on the Internet claiming the document was a fraud. It was the wrong color. It was missing an embossed seal. There was no crease from it being folded and mailed.

"Our friends from FactCheck.org went to Chicago, held the document in their questioning hands and examined it closely. Their conclusion: It's legit. "

Subsequent to that came the statements from Hawaii confirming the existence of the birth record in their files.

Do you have any proof for your claim that the examined certificate was not legitimately released by the State of Hawaii? Or any proof of your assertion that my link proves that Hawaii didn't release any documents? Did you mean to say that Hawaii didn't release the other form that they would be violating their own state laws by releasing? That's very different from saying they released no documentation.

Again, have a good time -- I didn't want to post again until you challenged my ability to read the link I had posted.

I never made a claim it wasn't. I have repeatedly said that Hawaii has not done anything beyond verbally confirming it, no official documentation. I'm holding someone who wants to be the POTUS to a higher standard. They should, without question, be able to provide a redacted birth certificate with an official document from the state that grants it. The interacted one should go to election officials that determine eligibility and te redacted to the public. I'm looking at ways to prevent this in the future because, like I said, both sides have handled this the wrong way in every way possible.

[saltydawg]

I know the state and federal laws about it. I'm not asking for the birth certificate. That is something Obama, and every other candidate should provide with obvious redactions.

I never made a claim it wasn't. I have repeatedly said that Hawaii has not done anything beyond verbally confirming it, no official documentation. I'm holding someone who wants to be the POTUS to a higher standard. They should, without question, be able to provide a redacted birth certificate with an official document from the state that grants it. The interacted one should go to election officials that determine eligibility and te redacted to the public. I'm looking at ways to prevent this in the future because, like I said, both sides have handled this the wrong way in every way possible.

The plain fact of the matter is that Obama has given the public a copy of his birth certificate.

This is an issue because of some fuitcakes and out in the real world folks could give a rat's ass about Presidential candidates birth certificates.

Tell me why you think Sarah Palin should give the public a copy of her birth certificate?

[JuBru]

No, someone in his camp took some crappy photos of a piece of paper.

That's a problem. You are saying that it is okay to ignore the Constitution and laws of the United States. It damn well is not okay.

She was trying to be VPOTUS. Should be held to same standard as POTUS.

[JAAgan]

No, someone in his camp took some crappy photos of a piece of paper.

No as mentioned in the article I linked the document was made available and examined by journalists.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

[JuBru]

Two different links and organizations. Applying the word "journalist" to them is being generous, and they aren't exactly experts. And again, it comes down to the authenticity of them actually doing what they say- which has been my point. It is TOO easy to say something while not actually Ptolemy the evidence to back it up. No, not some conspiracy or anything stupid like that causing this, actual accountability.

[JAAgan]

That link was contained in the story that I linked.

Exactly who do you want to touch this document? Since you reject the testimony quoted. Whose word will you accept? Did you want it brought to you personally? I''m sure the folks you dismissed have an equally high opinion of your job skills.

What standard are you applying to demand this be done in this case? You mentioned the Constitution, where in the Constitution? Accountability to whom? This candidate took the exact same steps as every previous candidate to gain ballot access. So, I have to ask why do you want a different standard for this candidate than any previous candidate? You talk of accountability, accountability to whom and why more for this candidate?

The point is that you keep talking about breaking laws and violating the Constitution without a single citation. Exactly whom do you think violated said laws. The folks in the states that gave ballot access. Do you have any proof that they held Obama to a different standard?

[JuBru]

That link was contained in the story that I linked.

Exactly who do you want to touch this document? Since you reject the testimony quoted. Whose word will you accept? Did you want it brought to you personally? I''m sure the folks you dismissed have an equally high opinion of your job skills.

What standard are you applying to demand this be done in this case? You mentioned the Constitution, where in the Constitution? Accountability to whom? This candidate took the exact same steps as every previous candidate to gain ballot access. So, I have to ask why do you want a different standard for this candidate than any previous candidate? You talk of accountability, accountability to whom and why more for this candidate?

The point is that you keep talking about breaking laws and violating the Constitution without a single citation. Exactly whom do you think violated said laws. The folks in the states that gave ballot access. Do you have any proof that they held Obama to a different standard?

First, if you were to go back and read my post, you would see I have
already answered your questions.

I have repeatedly argued that this has NOTHING to do with Obama now. It has everything to do with the system. There is technically NO standard (more on that in a moment), and that's a problem. I am stating what I think the standard should be and how it should start
being applied. The post I made earlier drives this point home:

It doesn't say that. It does say that Noperson except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the UnitedStates, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the
United States.Frankly, only a damn idiot would say that a person
doesn't need to prove that.

There. There is the standard and law. Written into the Constitution. You have to be a complete imbecile to NOT have a system or requirement of actually proving it. Liberals love to say that the Constitution means more than it says (more guidelines than rules), as
long as it is a way to bolster their goals. But when it the Constitution actually implies something in plain view, they are blind to it.

The executive and legislative branches have committees out the wazoo, costing over $400 million year, to deal with bullshit they have no reason dealing with other than the want to assert more power over the people. However, one their main duties, as “small” as it may be (which is pretty big actually since it is the PRESIDENT of the United States), they don't have any one really paying much attention. The Federal Election Commission is an appointed job. They are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. This is wrong. Political appointees should never be in a position with so much power. They should be elected. Any and EVERY commissioner should be either a member of Congress or the Senate. The FEC currently doesn't answer to anyone but themselves (and the President). Another wrong. The current system just sets itself up for being corrupt, perceived or actual; and it is too easy for it to be fixed.

The Who:
Federal Election Commission. Commissioners should only be elected officials, with equal representation from both parties. (the two-party system failings is for another discussion another day)

The What:
Private – Complete Birth Certificate with separate authenticity certification from issuing state

Public – Complete Birth certificate with separate authenticity
certification from issuing state; certain information on BC redacted
to prevent identity theft and such

The When:
No sooner than 2 years before election (another discussion for another day)

The Where:
Washington, D.C. Capitol Hill

The Why:
The position(s) being ran for is PRESIDENT of the United States and VICE PRESIDENT of the United States. Their ENTIRE lives should be up for scrutiny by reputable investigators of Congress. There should be almost no privacy.

The How:
Cutting redundant committee's (another discussion for another day)
Hand delivery of documents proving citizenship and status (remember, must have lived in the US the preceding 14 years to be eligible)
Physical interview and assessment of candidates
Handled before declaration of candidacy is possible

There's obviously more to it than this, but that's just what I came up with on the fly.

Again, this has nothing to do with Obama. It has everything to do with the failed system that has allowed this stupid argument to continue. Completely preventable. This isn't just some job, this is for the leader of the free world. It is a pretty huge deal.

I could continue, but I think you might get what I'm saying now. And all your questions answered, again.

[JAAgan]

Well break it down for we imbeciles. When did you decide all of this was necessary? 2000? 2004? 2008?

By the way, speaking of proof , can you prove anyone -- liberal or not -- has said Obama should not meet the Constitutional standards. It might help those of us who don't have your vision and are blind to the Constitution.

[JuBru]

Already broke it down, or was it a 'TL;DR' moment for you? Have never had to look at this situation before last year, so 2010. I've always assumed there was something in government that was pretty legit to determine this stuff. Boy was I naive. Amazing what a little independent research can show you, which I'm sure you can appreciate.


Get off the Obama thing. I'm not saying he is not an American or arguing against him being one. You're starting to reflect what you're detesting.

[GonzoDawg]

NO possibility of THAT!!!!!

Has there ever been a time when the right was more energized? I don't think people realize just how big of a shellacking this last election was. It's not just the House of Representatives, it's the state and local governments that went in huge measures to the right. A majority of the country now considers themselves pro-life, and for the 1st in my life we may actually get at least some reduction in government and in two year we may be able to do more. Just as Clinton energized the right and with the Rep's controlling the house and Senate we had several years of success. That was all squandered from 2000 to 2008. People saw no difference in Rep's and Dem's and gave congress and the executive branch to the left. The left saw it as an opportunity to run way left and last fall the American people SOUNDLY rejected it. Barring another loss of direction by the right we should be able to move the ball.

[JAAgan]

I'll get off the Obama thing if you get off this imaginary crisis of Constitutionally unqualified Presidential candidates being on the ballot. That's not reality. We know more about any marginial candidate for President today than we knew about candidates who won election in the early part of the 20th Century. The system is working just fine, and all that additional system of checks you suggest just aren't needed from what I can tell.

That's the reason I asked when you developed this plan. Clearly you have decided a problem existed that made such an elaborate plan necessary. Trying to figure out what caused you to reach such a conclusion brings me back again to the clear point that the election of Obama and this manufactured silliness about his birth caused your concern. So, I can't "get off the Obama thing", when it clearly was at the root of your concerns that we had a bad system in place. Do you know of any other Presidential candidate you suspect has been allowed to reach the ballot because of the "flaws" you perceive in the system?

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Received this one today but I haven't checked it out yet.


Well here it is YOU BE THE JUDGE !!!
Snopes say's it's true [ That's Amazing ]
Here it is, folks! The document we have been waiting for! Now if only SOMEONE in Congress or the Supreme Court will act on this! Spreadthis around.....if these documents are as authentic as they certainly seem to be, Obama is NOT qualified to be our President and he sits in the White House illegally!
This is what Obama has spent almost $2M (so far) to hide...

Here's a close-up of the top of the document where you can plainly read his name and his parent's names, etc....

A British history buff was asked if he could find out who the colonial registrar was for Mombasa in 1961. After only a few minutes of research,he called back and said "Sir Edward F. Lavender"
Note the same name near the bottom of the photo above. Source(s)" Kenya Dominion Record 4667 Australian library."
Andhere's a close-up of the bottom of the document where you can read "Coast Providence of Kenya" and the official signature of the Deputy Registrar...

Theabove document is a "Certified Copy of Registration of Birth", but below is a copy of the actual Certificate of Birth... the real-deal legal kind of certificate.
The Mombasa Registrar of Births has testified that Obama's birth certificate from Coast Province General Hospital in Mombasa is genuine. This copy was obtained by Lucas Smith through the help of a Kenyan Colonel who got it recently directly from the Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya. Here it is.....

Note the footprint!!
Thelocal Muslim Imam in Mombasa named Barack with his Muslim middle name Hussein so his official name on this certificate is Barack Hussein ObamaII.
The grandmother of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. reveals the story of his birth in Mombasa, Kenya, a seaport, after his mother suffered labor pains while swimming at ocean beach in Mombasa...
"On
August 4, 1961 Obama's mother, father and grandmother were attending a Muslim festival in Mombassa, Kenya. Mother had been refused entry to airplanes due to her nine month pregnancy. It was a hot August day at the festival so the Obama's went to the beach to cool off. While swimming in the ocean his motherexperienced labor pains so was rushed to the Coast Provincial General Hospital, Mombasa, Kenya where Obama was born a few hours later at 721 pm on August 4, 1961. Four days later his mother flew to Hawaii and registered his birth in Honolulu as acertificate of live birth which omitted the place and hospital of birth."
Letter from Kitau in Mombasa, Kenya...
"I happen to be Kenyan. I was born 1 month before Obama at Mombasa medical center. I am a teacher here at the MM Shaw Primary School in Kenya. I compared my birth certificate to the one that has been put out by Taitz and mine is exactly the same. I even have the same registrar and format. The type is identical. I am by nature a skeptical person. I teach science here and challenge most things that cannot be proven. So I went to an official registrar today and pulled up the picture on the web. They magnified it and determined it to be authentic. There is even a plaque with Registrar Lavenders name on it as he was a Brit and was in charge of the Registrar office from 1959 until January of 1964. The reason the certificate says republic of Kenya is that we were a republic when the "copy" of the original was ordered. I stress the word "copy". My copy also has republic of Kenya. So what you say is true about Kenya not being a republic at the time of Obama's birth, however it was a republic when the copy was ordered.
The birth certificate is genuine. I assure you it will be authenticated by a forensic auditor. We are very proud Obama was born here. We have a shrine for him and there are many people who remember his birth here as he had a white mother. They are being interviewed now by one of your media outlets.
Fortunately they even have pictures of his parentswith him immediately after his birth at the Mombasa hospital with the hospital in the back ground.
It will be a proud day for us when it is proven that he was born here and a Kenyan became the most powerful man in the world.
I encourage anyone to come here and visit. I will be happy to take you and show you the pictures at the hospital myself as well as my document and many others that are identical to what Taitz posted. God Bless. Kitau"
So, how much more proof do we need?
Well, Here it is...{SJC}
WELL, HERE IT IS....
Lolo Soetoro, Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro, baby Maya Soetoro, and 9 year old Barry Soetoro.

This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school inJakarta, Indonesia , shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro.
Name: Barry Soetoro
Religion: Islam
Nationality: Indonesian

How did this little INDONESIAN Muslim child - Barry Soetoro, (A.K.A. Barack Obama) get around the issue of nationality to become President of the United States of America ?
PART 2:
In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama's qualifications for the presidency, the group "Americans for Freedom of Information" has released copies of President Obama's college transcripts from Occidental College ...
The transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia while an undergraduate at the school. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California . The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify for this scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. This document provides the smoking gun that many of Obama's detractors have been seeking - that he is NOT a natural-born citizen of the United States - necessary to be President of these United States. Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya , here we see that there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship.. Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama's campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block
disclosure of any of his personal records.
Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still on-going but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. attorney general, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused comment on this matter.
http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...stion-1199113/

[DawgyNWindow]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama.../kenyacert.asp

Snopes says not true.

[dawg80]

Right! obama was not born in Kenya.

He was born in Zanzibar. Still not eligible to be prez of the US...regardless.

The proof is right there!

[FriscoDog]

The Democratic Governor of Hawaii (and friend of Obama) says that he cannot find any evidence (documentation) that Obama was born in Hawaii.